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Hydraulically Challenged , Western or Fisher

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by monsonant, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. monsonant

    monsonant Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    Family plow guy here ,, I don’t contribute much to the forum and only post messages when I have a problem . I do lurk here and have learned a good deal when doing so. You guys have always helped in the past .. hopefully you will again . This is a little long , but I am trying to cover everything in one post. Please bare with me.

    First of all is this a Fisher or a Western ? Plow was new in 91 and was purchased as a fisher … Cable controlled , speedcast frame and fisher plow , all marked fisher but there are no markings on the motor or the Pump The internal pump is marked Western

    I have been looking for a parts list or mechanics guide . The only drawing I can find that looks exactly like it is for a Western Cable Isarmatic , None of the Fisher drawings seem to match up exactly.

    Here are the Symptons ….
    Plow will only raise a few inches on its own (with the plow attached ) ... but with just a little assistance it will raise fully and hold there. Without the plow attached the ram shoots right up . Checked to see if the plow was binding anywhere but it is not.
    Plow angles left and right but slowly not like when it was new , takes 5 or 6 seconds to go from left to right …..

    I know the first thing I should do is check the pumps pressure and the motors draw but so far have been unable to find anyone that can do that for me. .
    I have pulled the whole thing apart , flushed it out , cleaned the screen , replaced the O ring on the bottom of the internal pump and turned the pressure of the internal pump up just a bit (less than a quarter turn CW) , Cleaned and adjusted the Lift valve , checked the packing nut , adjusted the cables and cleaned all electric connections .


    Here are my questions
    1. is it a Western or Fisher
    2. Is the internal Pump something I could rebuild Myself (some one said to reverse the impeller)
    3. Could it possible be the motor , it is a little loud but the plow does angle and ram raises real fast without the plow attached .

    I could go out and throw a few hundred dollars at it and get a new motor and internal pump but $$ is a little tight . I don’t want to buy something I don’t need or still have the trouble after spending the $$.

    4. Can anyone tell me what internal pump and what motor I should get , if that is what I should decide to do. I do understand that the pump shat and motor must match.
    Thanks So Much ! Dave A.
    Photos are before cleaning .
    View attachment Image1.bmp
    View attachment 181-8163_img.bmp
     
  2. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,031

    Fisher & Western are one in the same. Here is the manual on it: View attachment Gordan's plow.pdf

    There is a complete break down of the unit with part numbers on the last page.

    I have a sub with the exact same pump and exact same issue. I have done exactly what you have with the same results just this past weekend. I ordered a new motor for it to see if that will cure the problem. Keep this thread updated as you go please. I would like to see your progress.

    FYI, I wouldn't touch the internal pump as far as rebuilding.
     
  3. monsonant

    monsonant Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    Ryan , Thanks for the paper work ... I'll look at it this evening.
     
  4. no lead

    no lead PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,308

    you pump is shot.
     
  5. monsonant

    monsonant Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    One more question

    I am pretty sure you are correct I pulled it all apart one more time and double checked everything . I could make the blade rise a little more (8") by manually moving the dog in the 3 way by hand , sort of an an "on and off " motion , each time it would rise a little more but soon quit. Thought I was on to something ...... Still cant find anyone with a pressure gauge but I am 80 % sure I need a pump anyway .

    About the motor ..........

    One more question ... is the motor OK as long as its turning ? does it have to turn at a certain speed ? I guess what I mean is does a motor slow down as it wears ? Thanks again Dave A
     
  6. no lead

    no lead PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,308

    it should spin pretty fast. a motor is pretty much on or off. if its about shot it can slow down.

    try a pump first.
     
  7. monsonant

    monsonant Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    Ordered a new pump , since the old one was on its way out I ordered a new motor as well . I will post the out come , wont be much of a surprise ... but I hate unfinished threads:angry: Thanks Dave A
     
  8. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,031

    Dave. what did you spend for the two of them?
     
  9. monsonant

    monsonant Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    Pump $137.43
    Motor $98.78
    Tried to buy them locally but anyone that had them for a fair price could not get the lift valve :dizzy: , which I also wanted to replace . I stripped the "head" on mine .
    So it came down to Sales Tax vs Shipping . I ordered out saved a few bucks and got the valve for nothing .. still waiting for it to arrive.

    I saw the motors and pumps for less but decided to go with an established dealer with a good reputation .
     
  10. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    Just wondering. How hard would it be to just set this plow up as a "HYDRAULIC UNIT" without the cables??

    The reason why I was asking Angelo's supplies sell rebuilt pumps(or fix) . Maybe they will take your pump and send you a hydraulic unit??

    HDU.jpg

    Just a phone call and see what they would say.. No cables to mess with or replace.. You really don't know if your unit is still any good. Put in new parts, and still have problems...

    HDU.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2009
  11. redsoxfan

    redsoxfan Senior Member
    Messages: 102

    same problem

    I have the same setup pump and motor but on a minute mount 1 I changed the pump changed the motor checked everything and still nothing think im going to send it out to be fixed by a fisher dealer next week if they tell me whats wrong ill be sure to pass on the info
     
  12. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    redsoxfan

    read thread #10 and look at the yellow diagram..
     
  13. 84deisel

    84deisel Senior Member
    Messages: 696

    99.00 dollars covers labor. PARTS AND SHIPPING ARE ADDITIONAL. They are rebuilding your unit not shipping out a replacement unit.
     
  14. monsonant

    monsonant Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    New Problem

    It was the pump after all . Just to make sure I hooked up the old motor to the new pump and the plow worked great . could have gotten buy for awhile with the old motor , but it is a little weak and the " + post " was pretty much stripped and loose . I am happy to have the new motor .....but....... I now have a new problem. :dizzy:, I will start a new thread for it Thanks very much to all that helped . Happy Holidays Dave A