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how to drive with....

Discussion in 'Truck & Equipment Repair' started by mcwlandscaping, Nov 28, 2007.

  1. mcwlandscaping

    mcwlandscaping 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,557

    As a lot of people know, i did a gear swap on my truck and now have 4.11 gears front and back, back end now with posi.....i used to have 3.73 gears, open diff in rear. Ive noticed that there is a lot more slipping in the rear end when the posi kicks in, especially in the mud and when we got a light coating of snow last week. Is this normal? And in 4*4, when engaged, i still get some slippage.....i'm running 265/75/16 Cooper Discoverer M+S tires, pretty new ones......can someone tell me what's normal to expect and some tips plowing with this gear setup? I do understand that when plowing i will be clearing the area i will be driving in, but, i need to get to the accounts! lol, just dont' want to get stuck! I should also ad, these gears came out of a friends truck that he plowed his driveway with and it was a BEAST!! I dont' know if he experienced this same thing...

    thanks
    -mike-
     
  2. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609

    baby the gas. get a tru trac. avoid a locker unless its primarily off road use. make sure you have enough ballast.


    and consider going to a taller tire next time you buy tires to bring that gear ratio down a bit..

    with the open differential you get the truck grounded by the wheel that didnt move. the wheel with the least resistance spun but the truck stayed planted from the non spinning wheel and hopefully one of the front wheels pulled you forward enough to regain traction in the back wheels. now you have one wheel spinning at a much higher ratio so it has more force, then the other catching posi and my guess is sending the truck sideways. If both of the front wheels arent pulling equally it breaks traction even quicker in the back will come out even faster. a tru trac will balance the power transfer. more ballast will make it more likley to dig instead of breaking loose. regular posi rear end doesnt do the job very well of power transfer.

    we had a 92 for explorer that had a six cyliner with nothing done to it but a mild lift and some nice tall tires. i could go through more snow than most pickups with posi and took it places i wouldnt dare to go with my chevy truck. i used to "try" to cross smallrivers and streams with it too. not everything is as it seems.

    just my take on it.
     
  3. mcwlandscaping

    mcwlandscaping 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,557

    OK, B&B, can you tell me exactly what i have then? lol

    Thanks bribrius....i understand what you are saying, i think i will benefit more from this setup than the old one, but, there will always be some issues no matter what i choose! I'll be running, hopefully about 700lbs of ballast! :)
     
  4. theplowmeister

    theplowmeister 2000 Club Member
    from MA
    Messages: 2,551

    By slipping I think you mean the rear end slides sidways? You are looking for traction Tires make the bigest difrence. Not a mud tire, not a M+S tire a SNOW tire
     
  5. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,556

    I use a LSD rear-ends too.

    Plow in 4x4, this will help.
    Minimize wheel spin.
    Keep your foot out of it.
    practice, practice, practice.

    You'll get the hang of it;)

    700# to 800# should be enough weight.
    You do have it behind the rear wheels?.....




    Going to a Taller tire:rolleyes: will do nothing for this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2007
  6. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Your experiencing basically what bribus is explaining and is totally normal for a diff that has the capability to apply power to both tires....

    Now, anytime it spins, it will now spin BOTH rear tire's, which will generally make it slide to the lower side of the "crown" in the road since it doesn't have one tire just setting there to keep the truck "anchored" to the pavement..

    I'll bet it spun before but since it only spun one tire and the other kept the truck anchored, you didn't realize it was spinning as much as it was.

    I think you noticing as much as you are is not only because you went to a GovLoc differential (which is what the diff is that you swapped in), you also went to the 4.10's which will make the throttle more responsive on take off..so it will tend to spin easier than before..

    The key here is ballast.. Now that both tires are providing forward traction you need to add contact pressure to the tire tread to take advantage of that extra forward traction.

    Once you get the ballast added and get used to applying throttle input, you'll like all the extra traction that the diff added...:nod:
     
  7. mcwlandscaping

    mcwlandscaping 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,557

    Thank you guys A LOT!!! TPM, i have not gotten my ballast yet for this year but it will certainly be going behind the rear tires....snofarmer, i always plow in 4*4 because i always had to due to the open diff...when road and good weather driving you dont notice how much more power is put to the wheels now, when i hit mud or snow, i agree you certainly notice it!! And B&B, thank you HUGE as always!

    Again, thank you guys, i REALLY REALLY appreciate it, it just kinda scared me last week, i just have to get used to it :)
     
  8. packey

    packey Member
    Messages: 97

    a posi sometimes will tend tcause the rear to slide. This happens when you get on the gas to hard. ease onto the gas pedle and slowly pick up speed. I have been running posi rears in my trucks since I learned to drive and very seldom do you have traction problems. the problem comes when you do not have enough wieght in the rear and a heavy foot.
     
  9. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    Okay I have to jump in on this response, the Cooper Discoverer M+S is a seriously great plowing tire. It is a snow tire, how can you say it is not?

    MCW is slipping more now because the lower gears are really putting the power down fast (and sucking up the gas) and without the ballast he is just going to have to lighten his foot.

    Back to the tire, yes there are more luggy tires that may be better for driving off road or in deep azz snow, but we aren't. we have just cleared the road of snow leaving behind the ice crystallized asphalt, lugs won't help there, but the millions of sips on the coops M+S are perfect.
     
  10. mike33087

    mike33087 Senior Member
    Messages: 555

    lol basically what the others have said, my truck has the locked rear end with the 4.10 gears and it takes a lil bit to get used to especially when plowing..... just feather it, still to this day when i slam the pedal down it brings back memories of my mustang gt
     
  11. the_experience

    the_experience Member
    Messages: 75

    Just to clarify your Gov-Lok rear end is a automatic true locker, not a posi/limited slip. On top of that, it is a goofy locker in that it is normally unlocked. At a tire speed difference of 200 rpm I *believe* is when it engages and only at speeds below 20 mph.

    I will save you my opinion on Gov-Loks sinec you have one already and just tell you this much. It's going to take some time to get the feel for engagement speeds. Atleast the Gov-Lok tends to be pretty consistent in engagement and disengagement. Make sure you take good care of it and try not to abuse it (hammering the gas=bad, brakelocks=bad, etc) and it should last for you.
     
  12. mcwlandscaping

    mcwlandscaping 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,557

    Well, i'm an idiot! LOL

    Let's start out by saying that my four wheel drive never worked in the first place after doing the gear swap outs and i thought it did (faulty actuator, no biggie). Yesterday, started around 4am, did my driveway and was fine in 2wd, then did two Midas accounts, once again, in 2wd and did awesome! Then i headed back to do some of my residentials, that's when i realized that my 4wd wasn't working....so after battling out a couple of them, i did some work and manually engaged the 4wd and WWWWOOOWWW, that thing could plow over a house!!! SOOO much power and torque, not only that but all transfered right to the ground without a bit of trouble or slippage! So, all in all i had nothing to worry about whatsoever!!!....btw, i do have 720lbs of ballast in the truck and that was AWESOME and perfectly leveled the truck just like it is supposed to be!! I'm VERY pleased with my truck and very glad i did the gear swap!
     
  13. Detroitdan

    Detroitdan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,937

    My first plow truck had 3:73s, open, I remember a guy back then telling me to stay away from lockers because you can slide sideways on a sidehill. Whatever, it has never happened to me yet. That truck was lousy. My 2nd, 4th and my current plowtruck both 4:10 Detroit Locker. I wouldn't want anything else for plowing. I always have a lot of ballast on, so tire spin isn't a huge problem. But when I do nose the front wheels too far and get stuck, backing up I love having all those extra wheels pulling. If I have a full load of sand on I rarely even need 4wd.
    I thought the Gov-lock was only on the 6 lugs? When I was in the service the 6 lug diesel Blazers had 3:73 and Gov-locks, broke all the time. The diesel 5/4 pickups had 4:56 geared full floaters with I thought they were Detroit lockers, compared to the Blazers they were unbreakable.

    Is the 8 lug 2500 like MCWs a Gov-lock because it's a semi-floater? I'm pretty sure if mine were a Gov-lock I would have broken it a long time ago.
     
  14. Omaha Plowboy

    Omaha Plowboy Member
    Messages: 66

    I run 33" mud tires and couldn't be happier with how the preformed in the snow plowing last season. Only stuck
    I was high centered on snow drift, no other tire of similar size would have made any difference. I'll plow with Mudder any day.
     
  15. Omaha Plowboy

    Omaha Plowboy Member
    Messages: 66

    You probley just need too get used to it.
     
  16. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    You could get a Gov-lock (aka Gov-bomb) in just about any GM corporate rear end from the late 70's on.. 10 bolt,12 bolt, 14 bolt semi and full floater were all available with the Gov-Lock....

    As far as the military trucks like you mentioned Dan, yes the Blazers did use the Gov-lock and the 1 1/4 ton trucks like the CUCV's did have an actual Detroit locker in them...

    Dan, are you thinking that your current truck might have an actual Detroit in it? It could if someone installed it, but it didn't come from the factory with one....whether your truck has either the 14 bolt FF or a Dana 70.
     
  17. ServiceOnSite

    ServiceOnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 935

    you said your 4wd was broken and that was the problem. did you have this same problem before did the swap? im just wondering if that why you did the swap and all you really needed was to fix the 4wd???
     
  18. mcwlandscaping

    mcwlandscaping 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,557

    The 4wd worked before, but when i swapped the actuator over it stopped working, so, that's all i have to fix. The reason i thought it worked was because to test everything, i brought my truck to a hill that i know it couldn't do with the old setup even in 4wd, so, i pushed the 4wd button figuring i would need it and i went up the hill, and i made it without a problem! So, that made me thing the 4wd worked just fine :-\ Oh well!! :) all is well!!
     
  19. kah68

    kah68 Senior Member
    Messages: 237

    I agree with the 4:10 but I tow and plow in very hilly country and when we get 8-10" of heavy stuff it makes the truck launch that much better. My 93' Cummins works good in low range but I will be looking for 4:10's to swap in next year. One thing I am totally sold on is the use of a true winter tire. The Coopers are a good winter tire, but if you take it to the next level and go with a Blizzak or Toyo Open Country GO2 it makes the truck that much better at keeping traction, the results are truely amazing. I have always been of the opinion that if you drive your truck like a car most of the time then 3:73 or 3:54 is a good choice, if you tow heavy, work it hard most of the time 4:10 is the better choice, and yes I know, this is just MY opinion.

    Kirk
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2007
  20. tkrepairs

    tkrepairs Senior Member
    from maine
    Messages: 186

    4:10's and a nice heavy truck make for some awesome snow moving. like you said, you can move a house now lol good stuff huh?