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How long will it take?

Discussion in 'Bidding & Estimating' started by Vaughn Schultz, Aug 8, 2005.

  1. Vaughn Schultz

    Vaughn Schultz PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,565

    Howdy all, A little help would be greatly appreciated. I have been asked to place a bid on this lot for snow plowing. The the primary plow truck would be a F-450 with Blizzard 8611. Could you give me an estimate of how long it may take to plow this lot (providing the operator knows what they are doing :rolleyes: )

    I am looking for any help that I can get, I know that there are so many variables that play in to effect, I am just looking for a ball park figure. I know that this is a hard and annoying question to ask but unfortunately it is a necessary evil for a new plower, I appreciate your time.

    - Eric


    Satellite View
    http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.753826,-88.185432&spn=0.003733,0.007328&t=k&hl=en

    You may need to use the Zoom slide on the side of the pictuer, It will be blurry for a second then clear up after you let go to the mouse :waving:


    Ground level

    picture 005 (2).jpg

    Picture 002 (2).jpg

    Picture 005 (3).jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2005
  2. echovalley

    echovalley Senior Member
    from CT
    Messages: 456

    2hrs avg. snow fall,not to many cars in the way etc.
     
  3. flykelley

    flykelley 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,124

    I have to agree with echo on that time frame. Looks like alopt of long pushing, snow has to go to either end of tyhe lots. seems to me a loader with a push box would be in order.

    Good Luck Mike
     
  4. cet

    cet PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,202

    On the heavy snowfalls you may not be able to go the long way. The windroes will pile up fast. On these snowfalls I would put the plow in scoop and make one push and then move over a few feet and make another push until you have made a lot of relief passes. Then go back to the start and clean the whole place up. It will be easy on the light snowfalls but very time consuming on the 6" plus ones.
     
  5. T-MAN

    T-MAN PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,363

    Two hours should be more then enough for an 11' blade on a 1-3" storm. 1" storms will probally be barely an hour. 6" storms take more time on any lot and longs runs pile up but then the 8'6" plow will push better and move piles to the ends quicker and then a cleanup push-ful blade.
    Butthat is why you charge double for 6" storms right ? I dont think a loader and a box would be put too good use unless you have more sites real close for more use. That plow and truck will be perfect for this site :)
    Todd
     
  6. earnies2

    earnies2 Senior Member
    Messages: 136

    If the satalite pix is the lott i estamate it is about a 450 car lott? if that is correct you cant complete it in 2 hrs. The outer edge of the lott is full of spaces how many can they loose to snow there is a lot of vairibles to consider
    1,Are yuu one truck or a company of trucks
    2,do you have loader capibilites (either yourown or contracted )
    3,snow placement (can they loose spaces, and how many, can you use the grass for snow without being charged for dammages later)
    4,Sand and salt (inhouse or contracted)
    5,What kind of biseness are there or is it residental(if it is residential are they assigned spaces)
    6,what are the hours of the biz
    7,what are they requiring for liability insurance
    8,Is there a peformance claws reqired in the contract

    That is a good sized lott and during a blizzard(no pun intended) snow can fall in excess of a couple inches an hour it is verry easy to fall behind do you also have other lotts or driveways? is this your employment or do you have a job and plow on the side. I have been plowing for over 20 years and have seen plowers take on lotts they didnt have the equiptmeny or manpower to complete in a profesional methed and i've seen som of them who were sued and lost the sute and thier equiptment for the same reason. Thier are a lot of company's who say i got your back but whean the snow flyes its a differant ballgame they ment they got your back after they finnish all thier accounts (and they usually have more than they can handle).So my rule of thought if you cant handle it in house than get dedicated plowers under contract to plow for you!!!(and pay them after the storm not whean you get paid it goes a long way) :gunsfiring: :eek: (I LIVE FOR SNOW)
     
  7. Five Star Lawn Care LLC

    Five Star Lawn Care LLC Senior Member
    Messages: 426

    This is going to take at least 3 hours to do on a 1" storm...

    1. you have 14 medians that you have to deal with which i can tell you from experiance in a lot very similar to this is going to take you about 5 minutes a median if you want them to look good and allow full access

    2 light poles and handi-cap signs are a nightmare.....you cant just make full pushes around them. you have to you either have to push around them then pile the remaining snow around the base and block up 4 parking spaces around each pole...or take and push out all the snow from around each pole...which is very time consuming but depending on how high profile this client would be then this might be the only way you would want it done.

    3. dont forget about the 1000 liniar feet of side walk that has to be cleared also.....that going to take one guy at least an hour or more to do with a decent size snow blower.

    I wouldnt take a contract this size on unless i was getting full salt an CC....this is where you will make your money you will probably unload about 2-4 tons a salt depending on conditions and about 5-10 bags of CC depending on conditions.

    this would be a sweet acount to have....just make sure you bid it correctly and this will be a huge cash cow for you

    Safe Plowing
     
  8. Vaughn Schultz

    Vaughn Schultz PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,565

    Howdy all, Thanks for the help.

    Do you have any idea what kind of dollars I should be looking to get out of this? I have a good inside on this lot and can have it for the price that the company had it for last year, that is

    1-3" = $300.00 (Nice 1 inch trigger :drinkup: )
    4-5" = $441.00
    6 and over (I need to come up with a price?)

    Is this in line at all?
    This is the price from one of the largest companies in the Chicago land area. I know this because I have last years contract on my desk :rolleyes:

    Plus I Have no clue how to charge for salt!!

    any help would be greatly appreciated :D

    - Eric
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2005
  9. T-MAN

    T-MAN PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,363

    When I originallly looked at this site I missed the "L" section to the north. I agree that it is probally closer to a 3 hour lot but not for a 1" push. 1" pushes go very fast especially when your making 10' wide pass'es. The finese work can be accomplished with salt :) so really it is sweet when you get these type of events.
    Todd
     
  10. Five Star Lawn Care LLC

    Five Star Lawn Care LLC Senior Member
    Messages: 426

    i charge by the ton...I pay 47 and charge 120
    and for CC or tri i pay 8-12 and charge 28
     
  11. flykelley

    flykelley 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,124

    Grassbuster
    There is alot to figure out.
    1- Is the lot empty after a certain time, makes life easy when there are no cars around.
    2- Around here salt is going for about 120.00 a ton, from what I can see you will about two tons per event depending on how much you are trying to burn off.
    3- Yes the sidewalks will take longer than you think, plus where are you going to put the snow.
    4- where will they let you put the snow from the lot itself? At each end or can you use some of the parking space's?
    5- Driver experience will also come into play as will how much snow has fallen.
    I have plowed lots that size in two hours but they wide open and had plenty of places to put snow. If you get 6 inchs plan on taking about almost twice as long.
    I know this doesn't answer all of your questions but there are alot of things that will impact this bid. I have learned to bid a job and do the job for what I bid it and do a good job. I then know if I take good care of the customer I will have a good inside track for next year and will change my bid.

    Regards Mike
     
  12. cet

    cet PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,202

    1-3" for $300 looks good to me.
    My rule of thumb for salting is to charge the same as I do for plowing. I would charge $300 to salt that parking lot. Having said that, I buy bulk salt at $46/ ton. Any salt left over at the end of the run we put back in the shed. If you are buying from a local supplier you will pay 40% more and have to spread the whole load by the end of the run. There will be nights that you get away with a ton, but there will be nights that you need 3 tons.

    How do you bill for a snowfall when you are out plowing and there is 2" on the ground, half way through the lot and there is now 4" on the ground. What is the price for that push?

    We do very little by the push. They want a price for plowing,salting,sidewalks, the only extra is loader work.
     
  13. T-MAN

    T-MAN PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,363

    How do you bill for a snowfall when you are out plowing and there is 2" on the ground, half way through the lot and there is now 4" on the ground. What is the price for that push?

    Thats an easy one what was the total for that event? thats why you price 1-3, 3-6, 6-9 and up.If you told owners managers around here you get 100 and up you will have no work. Guys around here still charge 75 an hour and pad the hours and have ghost trucks to make the rate they need. Kinda like billing salt by the ton, the contractor never loses. One ton becomes 2, and 1.5 hours becomes 2. Why nick your customers too make a decent hourly rate.?
    Todd
     
  14. T-MAN

    T-MAN PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,363

    Actually there really not bad plow up to with your blade straight just touch the side and away you go to th end. There usually allways in line So next round come back and push both (unplowed sides) to
    you r windrow and away you go. I struggled for a while hand shoveling till my old Boss showed me the trick. Try to use your plow for everything, just get out of the truck to pee not shovel !!!
    Todd
     
  15. Five Star Lawn Care LLC

    Five Star Lawn Care LLC Senior Member
    Messages: 426


    but it takes at least doulbe the time to plow a lot with poles then it takes to plow a lot without poles.....you still have to slow down going around the poles and you cant tell me that at 3 in the morning after a hard night you havent 2nd guessed yourself as to the location of the pole while you were backing up and nearly ***** yourself b/c one snuck up behind you...

    thats the meathod that i also do them but in a 26K dump truck its a bit of a pain in the a$$
     
  16. Five Star Lawn Care LLC

    Five Star Lawn Care LLC Senior Member
    Messages: 426

    do you know the Sq ft of this lot?
     
  17. T-MAN

    T-MAN PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,363

    THis is were a pickup can double your big rigs time. I did one account with a ten footer last season, a large Jewel cut up pretty bad for a loader. Took about 1.5 hours too clear with the two rigs. I pushed around and out of everything and he moved the snow. Amazing how fast we could clear snow. I guess that may have something to do with the 810 I will hangin real soon :)
    Todd
     
  18. Vaughn Schultz

    Vaughn Schultz PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,565

    I will tomorrow when I measure :salute:
     
  19. Vaughn Schultz

    Vaughn Schultz PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,565


    This lot will have a pick-up with a 7'-6" blade and a F-450 with a 8611 and a V-box spreader. Should be a killer team :gunsfiring:

    Once again thanks for the help :waving:

    - Eric
     
  20. Five Star Lawn Care LLC

    Five Star Lawn Care LLC Senior Member
    Messages: 426

    is the 450 going to have a dump body, stake body, flat bed?