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Hourly prices

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment' started by MIDTOWNPC, Oct 27, 2008.

  1. MIDTOWNPC

    MIDTOWNPC PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,452

    Im in a frustrating part where I have a place thats wants to be quoted hourly however

    My problem is I know that Im quoting against someone who has a s185 with a I think 60" bucket I have a bobcat s300 with a 80" bucket,

    Is my bobcat not closer to a loader price? I guess I need to educate the property that I can push more, and out perform a s185.

    A loader is clearly not just a loader. there are many sizes.

    How do you guys compare and not get beat?
     
  2. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,045

    Sell yourself for a per push.
     
  3. snowandgo

    snowandgo Senior Member
    Messages: 143

    I think the S185 has a 68 inch bucket. If the account is worth anything, I'd go rent a S185 for a half-day and take it over to the guy and show him the difference between it and your 300.

    Sometimes you will get beat anyway. Especially if the guy needs it to look good on paper for his bosses or the dreaded stock-holders.
     
  4. Mike S

    Mike S PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,588

    Thats a problem I run into all the time! The only thing I have learned over and over agian is that to the customer a skid steer is just a skid steer and it gets skid steer pay. I am in a market where every one gets paid hourly though. You know and I know that your s300 will do more than the s185 but the customer doesnt. Is your machine two speed? If it is that could be a selling point. Loader price? What knid of loader are you thinking? Brickman pays for skid steers with a $10 differene in price due to the size of machine. The next price is Backhoe and then wheel loader. We get $75 to $95 per hour for our machines. That price difference is in the size of the machine. Hope this helps.
     
  5. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    This is why per hour pricing sucks.
    It doesn't pay to be more efficent (i.e. buying bigger equipment)

    It only costs a little more per hour to run your bigger skid steer, but it can do quite a bit more per hour.

    You need to explain and/or show the difference between different size bobcats and what you would charge for each and why.

    pictures help a lot, or even a meet with the property owner/manager and bring your equipment.
     
  6. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    You will NEVER convince everybody that only an apples to apples comparison is just.That is why hourly work basically pays the bills--contract work will make you some real money if you're smart about it.Clients that can't understand that size,efficiency of one rig vs. another is so important will certainly also not understand that all operators are not all created equal either!!!
     
  7. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162


    this is the case with all contracting wether its concrete const, lawncare, or any trade,

    but if the customer wants it hourly thats what they get
     
  8. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    The original author Midtownpc was asking about equipment sizes and 5 members responded regarding THAT. How would you ever possibly bid any type of concrete construction on a hourly basis???? Don't really know where you're coming from.
     
  9. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    sorry tuney i guess i thought i was agreeing with you more than argueing

    IMO wether you are bidding hourly, per push or seasonal youre not bidding apples to apples for example bidding per push 2 guys prices might be the same price but one does a better job, scrapes cleaner using less salt, does it in a more timely fashion impedeing customers less, etc,etc

    by the way a lot of concrete work is done hourly
     
  10. Peterbilt

    Peterbilt Senior Member
    from IA.
    Messages: 745

    this is why I have 2 skid loaders. The bid tells them which machine is going to be onsite. small or large. Its in writing.

    Rough grading or bulk work with the big one. finish work or light work with the small.
    as for snow. they both have big boxes so i charge the same for them (winter only)

    J.
     
  11. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    A little story comes to mind that happened to me years ago doing site work in a subdivision working for a real smart:jester:lawyer.About a 700' long push,knocking down a hill,bringing the fill to the low area.Smartypants wants me to do this with my little peanut of a dozer,a JD 450C--I tell him that's just stupid--I'll be there for a month at least--you need a scraper or at the very least,a D8 sized dozer.No,he says,a D8 gets too much money a day,I want you.I think at the time I was getting $50 per hr.A D8 was like $110 per hr.He finds a contractor {who what we call in the trade --a rental operator--2 speeds--yeah,slow and s-l-o-w-e-r} with a D4 who was $40 per hr.---was there 3 MONTHS!!!! A D8 with a good operator would have been there 4-5 days.But that lawyer sure did save some money, now didn't he????Not exactly apples to apples, now is it?

    Any mason contractor who charges hourly for concrete work really doesn't know much about his trade.There are so many logistics in that trade,that charging hourly would make no sense at all.They charge by either the job or by the cubic yard.
     
  12. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    it all boils down to a fair price is a price two people agree on
     
  13. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    Agreed!!:drinkup:
     
  14. big pusher

    big pusher Senior Member
    from ohio
    Messages: 129

    Mike do those prices include pushers or just the skid loader alone.
     
  15. MIDTOWNPC

    MIDTOWNPC PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,452

    I started to educate them a bit and I think it might be working. I explained a few things, first the size of the machine (weight it can displace) and size of the bucket.. I also explained that I can use a bucket I can use a blade. Tons of weapons to fight snow. Plus the driver. I give them 2 prices... first an hourly that was pretty high and explained that my s300 probably capable of out performing a backhoe in this properties case. Because of the back dragging and tight areas. I explained the down falls about hourly to them, for me and for them. I said that I felt later they would be upset with someone about how long it took, although it might look like a better job there was always something to negotiate or bring up after the fact and I didnt like that. I really pushed a seasonal contract, and so far I think its working. I have worked for this company 2 years ago and lost the contract last year to someone who bid me cheaper but I dont know if it was an hourly contract or a seasonal price they went with last year. I did find out last year however that they have not paid their final bill, and so I brought it up with them, and they said it was because there was $3800 damage and the bill was $3000 and the problem has not been solved. I have been hearing word on the street that last years contractor got stiffed but now I know its a different story. If I get this one back I will be very happy. Maybe I will get my bobcat wings. Im trying to figure out how to mount a set of mirrors on the arms. I see as though everyone has this problem of comparing apples to oranges, or bobcats to cats. Thanks for your imput. Is it the same with loaders... larger gets more money or loader is loader? what about tractor loader to loader? maybe I should fedex the guy a tonka loader and put "wanna pay $125 a hour for this?" lol
     
  16. MIDTOWNPC

    MIDTOWNPC PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,452

    Right so in snow you charge the same.... even with the box, but clearly the bigger can push more. I mean so in snow it just makes more sence to have the smaller one cause it turns a better profit per dollar spent then the big one does. I dont see end property owners paying more for 2 speed or larger machines, unless its negotiated.
    I once heard someone use a formula like $1 per hour per $500 of equip.
    so a $50 000 machine should bring $100 an hour.
     
  17. Peterbilt

    Peterbilt Senior Member
    from IA.
    Messages: 745

    They push about the same. The bigger one pushes a bit more snow, but they are used a bit different. The big one is going between jobs more. The smaller one stays in a neighborhood pushing. I can also say my smaller one will do the same (In the snow) as many other competitors larger machines.

    I also have good operators who can get the most out of a machine. Not like some of the others out there who don't use this stuff everyday.

    J.
     
  18. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,045

    I agree we have one guy that's drives one everyday and we have another guy that just drives ours in the winter. The daily guy plows 3 times as much snow.
     
  19. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    this is a simple one........buy a 68" bucket and put a new operator in the machine :nod:

    pj
     
  20. Mike S

    Mike S PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,588

    $75 is standard bucket price 85-95 is with pusher or big blade. SS alone price is $75:drinkup: