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Honestly, You think I'm in the wrong??

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by z71Worker, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. z71Worker

    z71Worker Member
    Messages: 89

    I was hired last month to plow for a landscaping company.. $15 an hour, there truck, gas and insurance, cash under the table..

    1st plowable storm.. 1 of there 2 trucks break down, other guy drives the truck im supposed to, they want me to drive mine.. i tell them $50 an hour, my gas, my truck, my a$$.. she flipped out, no way would she pay that much, sais it was a one time deal, never had a problem with there trucks before, ask me to please help out this one time and she would pay $30 an hour.. ok fine, i do it.. 6 hours at 30, easy $180 plus $59 for a full tank..

    2nd storm.. truck is working, however, I usually do north route all residential with NO shoveling NO salting NO snowblowing.. guy who does south route is away for the reserves (understandable) so she takes on a new guy to do my route and tells me im doing South route, 6 banks that require plow, shovel, snow blow and salt.. OK no problem, but not for 15 an hour.. she again goes nuts and I told her 30 an hour or I stay on the couch infront of my nice warm fire.. ok she goes for the 30 an hour... they have no spreader!! i carry 50lbs bags of salt on my shoulder and rip a corner off and salt every inch of 6 banks like this.. this is after the garbage 1991 junk blower dies after 3rd job and i shovel it all by hand!!!.... i finish here and move to the last 4 residentials that require some shoveling but not enough to complain about..
    11 hours total = $330.00
    picked up my envelope just now and only counts $247
    says while she agreed to the 30 it was unfair of me to take advantage of them when they were in a tough situation, and that in reality, even though she agreed to 30, I only deserved the higher pay for half of the hours worked..

    either way.. thinks im still working there.. guess who will be very suprised come tonight when we get the 5" they are expecting... dont think ill be working there route for them..

    AM I WRONG???
  2. justme-

    justme- 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,138

    Only appears that your mistake is working for them- I would tell them they're paying you cash up front now on since they can't seem to hold up their end of the deal plus the remainder of what they owe you from the last storm that they shorted you.

    Oh, and don't forget to spread the word about how they are a dishonest company to everyone you know.
  3. The Boss

    The Boss 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,099

    No way, that sucks!!! I wouldn't help them anymore either. It sounds like you got screwed big time. You could make it fun and tell them you're on your way and then not show up. Then when they call and ask where you're at, tell them they didn't pay you enough, you ran out of gas, and can't afford to put any in it. :D :dizzy:
  4. Mower For Less

    Mower For Less Senior Member
    Messages: 108

    In the first situation, I think you were completly in the right, and if anything gave them a break at $30 an hour. However, in scenario #2, you recieved over $22 an hour average for 11 hours to drive there truck. Thats a pretty good wage. Granted it was some hard work, but shovelers dont generally command premium wages either. Also you say this is cash under the table, which is really even more gravy for you, seing as how THEY are paying your taxes, that $22 is really worth about $31 (~depending on your tax bracket). I think you should come to an agreement with her that if they need to use your truck again, its at $50 an hour (or whatever you feel is fair), or you wont drive. Make it clear up front so it dosent seem like you are taking advantage of her in a tough situation. But as far as the second, if your not happy with that wage... maybe you could find a union job with the big 3?

    Take the $15 an hour like you guys originally agreed upon, and work a little slowwer. When she complains about how many hours it took, show her all her broken/crappy equipment. Call it a wash currently becuase your behind from the first situation, but your up on the second. So call it even. Maybe you could sub out the shoveling to a friend or relative for $8-$10 and add their hours to yours? Less money for you, but less work too.

  5. Derrick in NJ

    Derrick in NJ Member
    Messages: 32

    I'd be pissed!!! A well known rather large landscape outfit here in the Camden County area of NJ (who will be un named) tried playing that game with me 4 years ago when my E-47 pump took a crap, and I had to use my E-46 back up (non power angling pump). The supervisor saw that on my truck, after I worked 15 hours straight for them, then told me that I was going to be paid less than half of what I was told I was going to be paid. Needless to say, I was extremely livid, and they pretty much said too bad. Well, now the word has gotten out about them (I like to think that I'm partially responsible for that :blush2: ), and they're searching for subs like crazy. When ever I come across one of their subs, I let them know, and funny thing is, I find out later on that they were screwed also. I guess it worked out better for me, I found a company to sub for that treats me great, paid no later than 2 weeks after the event, and very understanding of any mechanical mishaps that may occur. Just chill out Z71, they'll get what's coming to them! :drinkup:
  6. crashz

    crashz Senior Member
    Messages: 256

    If I were you, I'd settle the issue. You want to be the professional here, even if they aren't. Meet face to face and try to come to an agreement. Include the the occasional breakdowns using your own equipment and so forth. Make sure that this deal is fair to both of you. And if you can't come to an agreement, politely tell them that you can no longer work for them. Give them the professional courtesy of a two weeks notice so they aren't hanging high and dry when they need you. This will curb any bad word of mouth going on about you, because as ou can imagine, if they are hassling you now, they will probably drag your name through the mud if you quit suddenly.
  7. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    Well first time you slightly got screwed but you agreed to it so its a wash. Second time they didnt pay what they agreed to when you tried to take advantage of them even though they agreed to it, I would call it a wash. Seems like everybody was trying to take advantage of everybody and everybody got pissed. Nobody wins when everybody is looking to get the better of the other guy.
  8. ace911emt

    ace911emt Member
    Messages: 83

    just wait till you get a 1099 then you will be pissed :redbounce
  9. bikeluver43

    bikeluver43 Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 84

    Tell her a verbal agreement is legally binding in court and its also illegal to withhold an employee's pay. If that doesn't work, take another job from them, and break the truck somehow-salt in the gas or something. That way they'll need you again.

    *this discussion never took place,and I am a fictional character* :bluebounc
  10. z71Worker

    z71Worker Member
    Messages: 89

    you really feel that i was taking advantage of them?
    not arguing, i asked for your opinion.. when they hired me at 15 it was clear as day that I would not be getting out of the truck at all.. for the second snow, i called at 6pm the night before and asked if we were all set, said yes and would see me in the morning.. at 9am when it started to snow i went to the garage, nobody there.. i called her and she said they didnt think they needed me and that she would let me know.. I advised her i would be in the area and could kill some time until noon and after that i was going home (45 mins away), so make sure she called before then, never heard from her till 130pm..

    lets see.. what would you guys charge to plow 6 lots and snowblow and shovel and salt push basis??
  11. andrewlawnrangr

    andrewlawnrangr Senior Member
    Messages: 339

    try and underbid them on their properties.... i mean if you can if they dont have a contract.....good luck gettin that settled
  12. jpunlimited

    jpunlimited Senior Member
    Messages: 132

    what deal?

    do not get caught up in the details. someone who breaks the deal can no longer be trusted. that 1099 is aleady on its way to you by express mail. there are some companies that treat subs or anyone else as trash. Is this a small family business? if it is, this just could be a cash flow problem they are covering for.
  13. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    If they had 12 guys wanting to do the work would you have told them you wanted 30 an hour or you were sitting home? If you really didnt think it was worth your time to do that work for less than 30$ per hour cash under the table then thats fine to ask what you have to have to make it worth your while then thats fine, but if you knew that they were kinda up **** creek and you could ring a few extra $$$ outa em then you were trying to screw them. It sounds like every body was trying to screw everybody but since I dont know all the details I duno. Regardless if they agreed to something they should pay it. If i were the owner and someone had me by the balls like that and decided to try and milk it I would pay em and not call em again. Sounds like you should just sever ties in a profesional manner. Dont try to get out of them what you are "owed" and dont be malicious. Its called karma. Not the kind that is getting spread out by some multi armed elephant but its really true you get what you put out. Give them a call and say, listen "You agreed to pay me x and didnt, if you arnt going to make things right since I went the extra mile for you and did x then I am no longer going to work for you." Dont be a dick and do it NOW. JMO
  14. Plow Meister

    Plow Meister PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,174

    Tell her you will call the IRS on her because she is paying people under the table. I'm sure you weren't the only one getting paid cash. She will probably cave in then. If not, I subscribe to the "Drive it like you stole it" theory. The next time you are asked to plow for them in her truck than drive the piss out of it. Put it in 4LO and wind out the engine. Slam into frozen piles. Drive in circles real fast in 4LO and tear up the tires and U-joints.
  15. z71Worker

    z71Worker Member
    Messages: 89

    would never damage there eqpt. and no, i didnt know what position they were in, up until an hour and a half after the deadline to call me in, i thought they were over staffed.. I even rented a movie on the way home and talked the ol'lady into making me some venison stew (which was turbo i must add).. oh well.. im not even asking for the money, i called and told them that our relationship was over, they begged for me to plow tonight in there truck, the normal route with no extras, i agreed with the clause that i wanted the cash up front for the same amount of time it took me last time and we could make an adjustment at the end of the night if needed, said she didnt trust me and hung up.. oh well.. im gonna plow my driveway every 1/4 inch tonight!!! :)
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2005
  16. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    I didnt mean to sound like you were ready to tear up thier stuff. Others were giving thier "beat on it" advice so i gave mine. I think how you handled things was right though :nod: They sound shady to me
  17. bikeluver43

    bikeluver43 Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 84

    Your not supposed to do that?
  18. cet

    cet PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,196

    There is nothing ilegal about paying cash. It is up to you to declare cash. I would not go out and delibertly break someones stuff. You got screwed at $30/hr. for your truck and you tried to screw them at $30/hr for labour. If you are going to quit then just quit. The business they are running is never going to last. They are most likely one of the low ballers. If you want bid some of their contracts next year but don't lower yourself to their stardards.
  19. cet

    cet PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,196

    I missed your last post before I posted mine. You handled that in a professional way. It is not always easy being taken advantage of but in this business it will happen again.
  20. Snow Picasso

    Snow Picasso Senior Member
    Messages: 247

    That's BULLS--T!!!!! I pay my shovelers $15 per hour. They all have new snow blowers and salting equipt.If I have an experienced guy behind the wheel of my truck I'll pay $20 - $25 an hour! Subs get $55 - $65 per hour.All bargaining is done up front before the snow, all debts are settled in 3 days. If you want respect from your employees you have to show some repect, and visa-versa.I would not work for those people anymore. As a matter of fact! I would listen to the guy who told you to agree to show up and stiff them!! Good Luck!!!What comes around....Goes around!!