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Holy Cow, Batman!

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Groundbreaker, Nov 2, 2001.

  1. Groundbreaker

    Groundbreaker Junior Member
    Messages: 13

    I'm putting together a bid at a local business and want to know if anyone could lend me some reassuring suport with any expeirence simular to what I've got here.

    Equipment: (1) F450 9.5 V-plow
    (1) 3 yd sander
    (1) John Deere 6410 w/ 8 ft snow bucket

    Aprox. 27 acres of blacktop parking areas that have about 1300 parking spots (no curbing, or islands, only light poles.) All snow left on site. Sanding done when needed. 1" trigger and remaing snow to be removed by 700 am.
    also a R.V. park with 57 sites, with half being drive thru and the other half dead ends( kind of a circular deal)
    This is to be the first major commercial snow removal, only expeirence is residential and smaller jobs. Mostly I will do the plowing with the ocasional help of another person.
    :confused: Can It be done successfuly without going to crazy?
    (Average snow fall of 44" with records of 75")

    PINEISLAND1 PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 664

  3. snow

    snow PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 1,002

    2 pieces of equipment doing 27 acres, then an RV park, i might of not plowed before but it doesn't seem like that stuff's going to cut it. rent a 6 yard payloader and get a 30' pro-tech sno-pusher , or even 2 loaders. buy an old DOT/municipal truck w/ a sander for doing the lot. Just some thoughts, cause that equipment is not going to cut it.

  4. ddm

    ddm Member
    Messages: 57

    I'm pretty impressed if you can do that all yourself and maybe one other person:D I don't think it's possible to cover that much ground with the equipment you've listed on a timely basis.

    And if you could do it, By Feb. all you would have is a bunch of beat up equipment. Nothing but breakdowns waiting for a time to happen.

    Sounds like a great contract, I'd definitely look into renting some bigger equipment to run to do the bulk of the work. Use your equipment then for some of the lighter loads on site. No sense in destroying all of your stuff first time out in this size of job.
  5. Groundbreaker

    Groundbreaker Junior Member
    Messages: 13

    Additional info----- 27 acres is total, 4-5 seperate, but ajoining lots, all going around 150,000 sq. ft. building. The John Deere is a rental. The 1" trigger is only between 700 am- 200 am. on the main areas. R.V. park and other clean-up can be taken care of later. All work is paid by the hour
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2001
  6. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    Your going to need more stuff to get it done in a decent amount of time.

    At least 2 loaders, an aditional sander would be nice, however you could pull it off with one. If your supplier is close to the site.

  7. Groundbreaker

    Groundbreaker Junior Member
    Messages: 13

    It will be a while before it snows, how big of a loader would be best. I don't want to go too big and not be able to pay the rent.
    Sand will be pilled on site.
    The dude that did the plowing last year had old junk equipment and wasn't concerned about the quality of their work, thats why it is up for bid this year.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2001
  8. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    Just an educated guess...

    You'll need to add two 4WD backhoes with 14 ft. ProTechs to what you have now in order to get it done in time.

    And, by the hour, you'll have to upcharge the hoes from your normal charge as you'll increase the efficiency of the backhoes by over double with the pushers. Don't try to just add the hoes without the pushers.... unless you add 4 of them (but that will just end up costing the customer alot of money).
  9. Got Grass?

    Got Grass? Senior Member
    Messages: 641

    If it's devided up and you have plenty of extra spaces to puch the snow and not to many long runs, you could do it but it will take a toll on your equip. have some backup plans if it goes down. If the last person had junk equip like you said and thay did it, you could also. But include the cost of a new truck in the hourly rate. because you may just need it. Hopefully thay dont care how long it takes you and are willing to pay for it. Hope you dont have many other jobs because you will be at the prop. all night.

    Either get a decent loader that can handle a large pusher. Or an older highway plow truck w/ plow, thay have some great deals at auctions but thay usually need a lot of work.

    If you store the salt on site remember you still have to load it and w/ a pusher box on you cant.
  10. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    Pusher box's take a good solid 4.5 minutes to hook up, and about 3.25 minutes to disconnect.
  11. Kent Lawns

    Kent Lawns PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 315

    And that 3.25 minutes includes re-filling his coffee and munching a donut. :)

    That is one of the advantages of a pusher box (opposed to a Daniels-type wing plow) is you can still use the machine as a loader
  12. Got Grass?

    Got Grass? Senior Member
    Messages: 641

    You would be amazed at the idiots arround here... I've seen pushers attached so you cant get them off (dont ask) and I've also seen some idiots try and load a dump with the pusher still on, making a total mess. Then sit and wait an hr. for someone to get there and tell them thay must take it off first.
  13. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327


    Oh that's prescious.... I'd love to see that one.
  14. SnoJob67

    SnoJob67 Senior Member
    Messages: 384

    Is there anyone that would feel uncomfortable having a backhoe with 10' pusher and a pickup truck dedicated to a typical 10 acre retail lot. Does that equipment setup sound like it would get the job done in a timely manner?

    If it is factored out, that would be approximately like attacking the property groundbreaker is talking about with three 10' pushers and 3 pickup trucks.
  15. cat320

    cat320 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,222

    I agree with every one you would need at least 2 loaders something like the size of a L 70 volvo,2 dumps 1 pick up and 1 7 yard sander.
  16. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    To answer your question Snojob, I would feel comfortable havingthem dedicated, plowing with the storm. The catch is, there would need to be some back up for larger storms. You should be able to keep the lot open with those 2 pieces, assuming the pickup has a salter.

  17. SnoJob67

    SnoJob67 Senior Member
    Messages: 384


    Thank you very much for the reply! That is exactly the type of response I am looking for. You have told me how to do the job with equipment I have available, which is key.

    I have the general feeling that during events above 6" I would need to call in support. I plan on using a 10.5' pusher on a backhoe accompanied by a pickup to each (prox.) 10 acre lot; or to (2) adjacent 5 acre lots.

    Just from the standpoint of an educated guess, what would be a good backup plan for heavier events? Would just adding one truck for a total of two pickups and one backhoe with 10.5' pusher be enough or would I be likely to get behind using that strategy in a heavier snowfall? If two trucks and a pusher would not work for lots that size, what would be a solid blizzard contingency plan for an area that can get 12" events, but rarely does?
  18. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    The key is plowing with the storm. Naturally, it doesn't always work that way. When you are talking about 12" that falls rapidly, pickups won't be much help. You need heavy equipment. It could be a loader, a BIG backhoe, or single axles with 10' plows (or larger dumps) Windrows get tall fast, and pickups can't push them back effeciently. What I am saying in a nutshell is you need something with a plow or pusher that weighs about 25 - 35,000#+ to back you up.

    Salt is a big key too. You need traction. If you end up with hardpack, you will take days to clear the lot with 12".

    It also depends on how wide open the lot is, and where the snow storage areas are.

  19. SnoJob67

    SnoJob67 Senior Member
    Messages: 384

    Chuck- Thanks again for the reply.

    We will be using salt at our discretion, so that is in our favor.

    I would think as long as we keep 1/2 of the lot, travel lanes and fire exits open during a heavy storm, we would be doing what was necessary for the few people that would venture out.

    The lot is pretty wide open, but will have plenty of cars in the lot, especially around Christmas.

    This account will require all snow to be stacked on the narrow end of a rectangular lot, which means lots of relocating. I may be better off to have a second backhoe with 10.5' pusher dedicated to that lot because of the location they requested for stacking. If need be, it can always be used for other smaller accounts that are in the vicinity, too.
  20. SnoJob67

    SnoJob67 Senior Member
    Messages: 384


    I saw Pro Tech was online. Do you have any helpful information you could add?