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hey all you DIRRECT APPLY LIQUID GUYS

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by elite1msmith, Sep 28, 2010.

  1. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    heres the situation

    I have a grouping of accounts, that i can plow, however salting is an issue. im not gonna stick a skidder out there so loading bulk salt at that location is a problem. i can load at the shop, but i think by the time all the plowing is done the salt will be rock hard, and i dont want to plow loaded with a 3/4 ton

    so... how well do liquids work..i used them a little in the past , but didnt play around with it too much.

    I do have storage rights at these properties, so buying a tank and a pump to stick on the sites would not be that big of a deal. the idea of pumping my truck full after plowing and spraying is sounding good. I can send a dump with salt that way for non-plowable events, like ice storms...just cant do it with plowable stuff. I can also put a tail gate spreader on that truck, and have some bagged (or bulk salt in buckets) ready to go for high traffic areas.... what do you guys think? i was really just thinking a simple gravity feed to start with and go from there

    info with application rates that you ACTUALLY HAVE Experiance with would be helpful
     
  2. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    We went full liquid last year but this year we might go 50/50. A couple large lots we have would be too expensive with liquid vs. rock salt. Any way, we've had nothing but good luck applying liquid, I'm not sure of the ratio but our's is sodium chloride with calcium mixed in. It burned off everything we needed it to. The average application was around 3 gallons/1ksqft.
     
  3. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    I use 50% rock salt and about 50% liquid. Maybe a little more to the liquid side if its a dry snow or post plowing. 90/10 mix salt brine / calcium chloride.

    9_28_10 003 (Custom).jpg

    9_19_10 007 (Custom).jpg

    Just finished these today and they're headed to New York, must work good?

    With the 90/10 mix, application rate varies just like rock salt does but any where from 60 gpa - 120 gpa max.

    9_28_10 003 (Custom).jpg

    9_19_10 007 (Custom).jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2010
  4. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    3 gal per ksq so yoru talking well over 125 gals per acre? may i ask whats the cost for that mix?
     
  5. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    Our cost is around .25/gallon, which doesn't seem like much but when your applying 500 gallons or more it becomes cheaper with rock salt.
     
  6. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    BUT....if your like Kabota, and can make your own it becomes very profitable. We just have no place to keep a brine making station. Kabota, I'm going to have to pick your brain soon. Next year we're moving into a building or bigger house with some land for a nice pole building and then I would love to put my own station up.
     
  7. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    With salt at $80.00 / ton (round # for ease of doing the math) and calcium chloride at 1.00 / gallon ( can buy for less if you purchase a larger quantity for as low as .60 / gal) at a 90/10 mix it will cost .20 / gallon for a salt brine /calcium chloride mix. This is the cheapest per gallon mix that I have found and it absolutely works. If you can show me something for less money that works as well I will try it.
     
  8. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    The little brine maker (400 gallon per batch) is 48" wide x 96" long x 66" high, not to big? They can set outside as long as you keep some salt brine in it. Its not going to freeze. Working on a 1,200 gallon maker next with (2) 5.5hp 2" pumps.....get er done....this one is 101" wide x 11' long x approx 66" high

    I'm not in the business of making brine but I had to turn down a 40,000 gallon order recently, I was afraid it would suck my well dry. If I had of been on city water, it would have been interesting?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
  9. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    Well at 135 gals per acre at 25 cents per gal, 33.75 to treat 1 acre, Salt wise, 700 lbs would cost around 25-28 bucks. So if you really are only putting down 3 per ksq, your cost would not be that much more, and in my case the extra 5 could be made up for due not having a skid steer near by to load salt, and saved fuel

    I'd like to get down to 50 gals per acre, just so we aren't going threw so mulch liquid and the tank on the truck could cover more area, is there a more expensive product that will cover more sq per gal?
     
  10. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    Here's how I would break down my application rate: 60-70 gpa for anti-icing 70-80 gpa for post plowing cleanup 80-100 gpa for burning off up to 1" of snow, and 100-120 gpa on higher moisture content snow up to 1" because I was too lazy to switch back to the spreader and not recommended. 800 pounds of rock salt to do an acre OR 100 gallon brine, rock salt @80.00/ ton and brine @ .20 / gallon, salt would cost $32.00, brine would cost $20.00
     
  11. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    That's helpful info, thanks


    Any ideas for a product that would require less per gpa, with a similar cost per acre(slightly higher per gal)
     
  12. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    Pretty hard to compete with a salt brine calcium chloride mix, both cost and ease of availability. In my opinion when a liquid cost more than a $2/gallon and still requires 30-40 gpa, once again salt brine 90/10 beats it hands down. Unless it is low temp. Thats when I can go straight calcium. I'd like to find a corrosion inhibitor that is inexpensive to dump in the mix.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
  13. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    My guy here has been working on just that (a corrosion inhibitor) and patent it last year. I can give you his number if you want.
     
  14. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    Here's my thing though, if your spraying 70gpa for a pre treat, then 80gpa for a post treatment thats 150 gallons total and at .20/gallon thats a total of 30 bucks and if your using even 1000lbs of rock salt, thats only 20 bucks (providing a ton of rock salt is 80.00). My number's for rock salt are based on only 1 post plow application.
     
  15. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    OOOPPPPSSSS, my math is off! Kids are driving me crazy!lol Rock salt would be at 40 bucks (using 1000lbs DUH). Using 700lbs you might be at say, 30ish.
     
  16. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    1,000 pounds of rock salt @ 80 /ton would be 40.00? I'm set up for getting paid per push and per application of a de-icer. If I anti-ice chances are I don't have to plow or spray again. I never anti-ice when I know the snow will be plowable. Therefore I will get paid to plow then get paid to spray post plow. Very rarely do I spray anti-ice just so it won't stick to the pavement.
     
  17. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    We're talking costs here right? If I buy a ton of salt (a ton roughly 2k lbs) then half would be 40 bucks. In your other post I thought you were saying you would pre treat, then post treat, thats where I came up with the 150 gallons. I may have read it wrong, I've been up since 5am, I almost cut my "manhood" off while pruning, as soon as I get in the door, the wife and kids are talking a bazillion miles a minute......serenity now!
     
  18. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    I listen to saws and stuff all day just to walk in the house to hear my son on the drums everyday for an hour! Yes about cost, no can't remember a time when I have sprayed before snow then again after done plowing.
     
  19. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    Gotcha! I think I'm going to go back out to mow just to get some piece and quiet,lol Let me know if you want that guys number for the inhibitor.
     
  20. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    Yes send pm his number or post it. This 90/10 mix I use I really like but is also really hard on the equipment. If cost isn't to bad it might be worth it.