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Help, please. E47 Rebuild Problems

Discussion in 'Meyer / Diamond Products Discussion' started by pstutcher, Jan 9, 2009.

  1. pstutcher

    pstutcher Junior Member
    Messages: 11

    I've done an extensive search on this site and have not found a problem that is matching mine. I'm hoping someone out there has seen this one before.

    An old E47 plow pump that I've used for years. I'm not a pro and only do my driveway and some neighbors so the plow doesn't see much use. Nevertheless, it was very old and tired.

    In any case, slowly over time it started having trouble angling side-to-side and would sometimes stick all the way right. Most recently, it stopped holding the plow up and then wouldn't raise the plow at all.

    I figured it was time for a rebuild. I did a lot of research, bought the manual and a master seal kit and got started. I found some crud in the system, but not much and none of the seals seemed to be damaged. There was lots of water in the system though so flushing the it out was long overdue. After some time, I figured out that my A valve was bad and not holding fluid to raise the plow and in messing with it the wire had broken off of the solenoid, so I get those new and installed them - raise/hold problem fixed!

    OK, so I get it back together and reinstalled on the tractor and find that I'm still having trouble with left/right. Magnetism at solenoids is good, wires are good, switch is good, cylinders and hoses are good, the pivot mechanism on the A frame is not jammed and as far as I can tell the connectors are good.

    The motor runs, the pump whines and it tries to move but does not. I can tell that pressure is building to the cylinders because after trying it out, the couplers become very difficult to remove - I have to put a block of wood onto the collar and tap it with a hammer to get them to pop off and there is considerable pressure in the lines which must be relieved before they can be reconnected.

    Here's the interesting part: After reconnecting the lines, the first try to get the plow to angle gets it to move momentarily and then stop - thereafter same as before with pressure in the lines. I figured that something was preventing fluid from leaving the extended cylinder. To investigate, I removed the hoses and the quick-connect couplers from the connectors on the PA block. What I found was that when I try to angle LEFT, I get fluid from the proper port. When I try to angle RIGHT, I get fluid from both ports, split about 80/20 correct to incorrect (I hope this makes sense)

    What that tells me is that it will angle left correctly but when I try to bring it back right, it is pushing fluid to angle it right, but also SOME fluid to angle it left which appears to be enough to stop it because fluid should be drawn out of to come out of that cylinder, not pushed in.

    I had a spare C valve on hand, so I swapped it out: same result. So off I go down to Angelo's with my C valve and solenoid in hand. They point out some slight ballooning on the stem of the C valve and suggest that this is my problem and $70 later, I'm out the door with my fix... Installed this morning and same exact thing.

    My neighbor has been helping me out (neither of us are experts) and he's convinced that the PA block is the problem and that I should replace that, I skeptical of that and Angelo's says that they rarely go bad and a nearly $600 it's out of the question anyhow.

    Another important side note: I cannot get the crossover relief valve to stop leaking (it leaks a lot). I'm fairly certain that I got it back together correctly, but anything's possible at this point. If the crossover relief valve goes bad and leaks, what specifically goes bad? All of the pieces in there look like they're in good shape and I replaced all of the seals during the rebuild.

    I'm really stumped and frustrated on this one and with 5" to 8" on the way today and the whole family coming over this weekend, I'm up a creek...

    Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to get as much information out there to you guys as I could to reduce the back and forth with questions..

    Thanks so much in advance for all of your help.

    pete
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2009
  2. kashman

    kashman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,070

    well 1 thing i would do is go get new quick connects. had them go bad on mine did the same thing
     
  3. 04sd

    04sd Senior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 266

    If you connect the two hoses together can you angle the plow by hand?

    FWIW, you could always plow this storm without the power angle. I assume this is an old ST series blade with manual angle provisions.
     
  4. pstutcher

    pstutcher Junior Member
    Messages: 11

    OK, Kash will do. But can you explain how there is fluid from both ports when angling right? Would that be considered normal?

    04Sd, we're on the same page and I'll be only plowing to the right tonight. Tougher to do and takes longer, but it'll do in a pinch. Yes, I can connect the hoses and angle by hand, everything is smooth there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2009
  5. 04sd

    04sd Senior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 266

    Since you already replaced the C valve. I'm guessing there is a problem with the crossover allowing pressure to be applied to both cylinders.
     
  6. 04sd

    04sd Senior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 266

    Thinking more about this, maybe the pilot check is stuck. This needs to open to allow to the "non-powered" cylinder to retract during both right and left angling. From the manual....

    Does pressure remain
    in angle hose when the
    motor is not running?

    YES

    If both hoses are stiff
    inspect the Pilot Check
    Piston and "C" Valve
    for binding.
     
  7. pstutcher

    pstutcher Junior Member
    Messages: 11

    gave up, but yet success!

    OK, swapped out the couplers, no change; replaced the pilot piston, no change; removed and replaced the crossover relief valve with new seals, no change.

    i was about to give up and buy a used E47 i found on craigslist and was looking things over one last time before i left to pick it up. that's when i was struck by an idea that is probably not an option for most people who have their plows mounted onto trucks. Mine is mounted onto my john deere tractor that has 4 hydraulic ports at the back. I ran 2 pressure hoses from the rear ports underneath the tractor to the angling cylinders on the plow.

    Now I use the meyer e47 to raise/lower and the hydro on the tractor to angle the blade. works great and with the higher pressure of the tractor it's much faster side-to-side. next year when i put it back onto the tractor after the summer, i'll rig a cylinder in place of the e47 and be done with this overpriced, problematic meyer crap.

    thanks for all of your suggestions.

    pete
     
  8. 04sd

    04sd Senior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 266

    I had a Western plow hooked up like that on a tractor a few years back, the angling was almost to fast :)
    BTW, using the tractor hydraulics you have no crossover relief. Just something to remember.
     
  9. pstutcher

    pstutcher Junior Member
    Messages: 11

    i realize that. top speed on the tractor is 12 mph in 8th gear and i never plow higher than 6th, so i don't ever get much faster than about 7 mph. i only do my drive and some neighbors.

    come to think of it, there must be some kind of overpressure relief in the plumbing of the tractor. those guys at john deere have been at it for a while and some farmer somewhere must have blown out a valve jolting something in the field at one time or another.
     
  10. 04sd

    04sd Senior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 266

    There is no relief built into the tractor but I doubt you could damage anything on the tractor anyway. If you would hit something you'll likely just bend up the plow. About 25 years ago I caught the leading corner of a plow in a pothole, probably doing about 10mph with a JD 3020, bent up some of the plow quite nicely. Of course the fact that I had the trip locked back didn't help :)