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Has anyone ran into this situation before?

Discussion in 'Business Fundamentals' started by rockcrusher4x4, Jan 6, 2003.

  1. rockcrusher4x4

    rockcrusher4x4 Member
    Messages: 32

    I tried the search and came up with nothing!
    The thing is I run a small lawn care/snow and ice control business that I am trying to grow so my 3 sons have something. I try to do everything by the books, and legally so the situation is my oldest son (14yrs) wants to start helping to learn, he wants to run the equipment and such, which he does (at home), I have checked, and as far as I can tell he is legally able to run the equipment, but being a part of the family you don't really have to pay them but I want to. The question is how do I show that on the books?, or would it be easyer to just pay form my own pocket?, and should the pay be what I would pay anyone else to help?
    Any opinons, comments or anwsers would be helpful.
    Thanks
    Joe
     
  2. Temco

    Temco Member
    Messages: 66

    Don't know what the labor laws are where your from but if I could legally hire 14yo's to run my equipment, i'd be rich!!! On a serious note, my belief is that an employee is an employee and his pay should be comparable to the position and level of experience.
     
  3. gslam88

    gslam88 Senior Member
    Messages: 168

    As fare as I know in the state of CT it is illegal to hire anyone under the age of 15, and then they can only work certain hours... but this is for a non family member... I am not sure if a family member can work, but "officially" just help out. So if that is the case, you may be able to not pay him for hours that he worked, but if a allowance was given it might be ok


    I did also just look up on the dept of labor website the following

    While 16 is the minimum age for most nonfarm work, youths aged 14 and 15 may work outside of school hours in certain occupations under certain conditions. They may, at any age: deliver newspapers; perform in radio, television, movies, or theatrical productions; work for their parents in their solely owned nonfarm businesses (except in mining, manufacturing, or in any other occupation declared hazardous by the Secretary); or gather evergreens and make evergreen wreaths.


    I do not know if your job is consider hazardous, but its something to look into
     
  4. JohnnyU

    JohnnyU 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,040

    completely off-topic

    I thought it was humorous that they specify making ever green wreaths
    On a slightly more related note: I did some work for my uncle when i was 14 and 15 in his construction business. I was not on the payroll, and if any one ever asked i was his kid and was just hanging around with him for that day ( that was basically to prevent paying union dues for three weeks of work off and on during the summer.) I just rode around and cleaned up after his guys had finished making their daily messes, it was fun and i learned a lot. He paid me at the end of the day from his own pocket, however, Im not sure how or if he put it in the books. I think there is a maximum hour limit, like 6 hours of work in a 24 hr period, something small like that, which they cannot exceed (child labor laws).
     
  5. MWM

    MWM Junior Member
    Messages: 13

    Pay

    Joe,

    You will be the only one that can decide on pay but if or when you have other employees be ready to justify your pay scale.

    This is a great opportunity to instill in him your work ethic that is missing from so many of todays young people. You are doing a great thing.

    My father started a lawn grading co. in '77 to provide a way for college money to be made for my brother and I. Was 13 at the time. Go to www.mccoylandscape.com and the 'meet the team picture'. Not the biggest co. but proud to have it. Even if they decide that this industry is not for them they will no doubt have a great learning experience that will help them be successful in what ever they choose to do.
     
  6. Arc Burn

    Arc Burn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,138

    MWM,nice photo,beautiful equipment,looks like a well run operation you should be proud of:)
     
  7. rockcrusher4x4

    rockcrusher4x4 Member
    Messages: 32

    MWM, That don't look like a small outfit to me I would be proud to have something like that, someday hopefully. If the pics on the home page are some of the work that the company has done it looks great, I like installing those retaining walls (real fun haha). Looks like a very well run company. Keep up the good work.
    Joe
     
  8. ffshuter

    ffshuter Junior Member
    Messages: 19

    My son started last summer mowing with me one day a week, using a 21" self propelled. I paid him out of my pocket. When he gets older and wants to work during the summer 20 -40 hrs, then I will make him an employee. Last year he worked about 6 hrs/week.
     
  9. Mr_Roboto

    Mr_Roboto Member
    Messages: 63

    LOL, the great evergreen wreath lobby strikes again.
     
  10. ZMC

    ZMC Junior Member
    Messages: 13

    Ask your accountant. I read something a while ago, that stated you can claim your kids as employees of your business if they are older then 8 (I think this is correct). Granted at this age they could help very little but if you pay them $500.00 for the year and put this money into a college fund your not paying taxes.
    Again I read this a while ago, so check with the accountant.

    I'm not sure exactly what the child labor laws are since we are talking about a family business.


    Russ
     
  11. myo

    myo Senior Member
    Messages: 193

    What type of equipment is he running? I agree with ZMC and the college fund.
     
  12. myo

    myo Senior Member
    Messages: 193

    What type of equipment is he running? I agree with ZMC and the college fund.
     
  13. myo

    myo Senior Member
    Messages: 193

    Oops, sorry about the two messages.
     
  14. szorno

    szorno Senior Member
    Messages: 308

    We have done a similar thing over the last 12 years. I started my kids shoveling at 9 years old. (1 account) I paid them an adult wage as soon as I did not have to wait for them to finish. When they hit driving age I graduatied them to an old Jeep Comanche. Safe and easily fixed. My 3rd is coming thru the ranks now. I train them for their first year, and they work on their own the 2nd year. I have a 9 hp blower at one site that the 13 YO started using this year. My CPA says that I can claim them as family workers and up to $4000 they don't have to pay taxes. I basically get the sub deduction for my business. The oldest boy is leasing back one of my trucks and I pay him subcontractor wages. He loves it. He does his own maintenance (or lack of). :nono:
    He will learn.
    We are on our 2nd year of having non-family subs. It was miserable when I tried subbing 16 years ago, but with some help from SIMA, it is working well now.:p
     
  15. carlriv2

    carlriv2 Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 126

    Check with CPA. I have been paying my boys for years now, and they are not subject to tax because of there age and income. I am not exacty sure why or how but that is the way my CPA said to go.

    First year I started my the boys were 5, 7, and 9. The youngest only made a little and the oldest made more because if I remember what I was told "they have to be paid a reasonable rate for work that they can and did do" . I guess that means you cant pay a 10 year old $50.00 / hr to plow snow.
     
  16. tovoninc

    tovoninc Senior Member
    Messages: 105

    I agree with szorno & carlrivz. I do the same thing with my business.