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Geo-pav, Anyone have any experience plowing it?

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by DeereGuy, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. DeereGuy

    DeereGuy Senior Member
    Messages: 346

    Well, my biggest account put down 3/4 of an acre of Geopave separated into 3 different areas. Geopav is a poly grid over a porous base with an infill of 1/2" stone.

    Seems pretty flimsy to me. Guess we'll see what 6 ton of Green can do to some flimsy plastic grating holding an aggregate that will never freeze. Sounds pretty fluid to me. I can imaging the sticky wet snow peeling up a layer of snow and stone while grinding the powdercoat off my entire yellow Metalpless blade. Any Experience would be appreciated. I haven't yet finalized the agreement for the next couple of years.

    http://www.prestogeo.com/geopave_porous_pavement

    Bidding another lot with porous pavement. Not worried about that one but I've never dealt with it either.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  2. leigh

    leigh PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,997

    Looks like a complete nightmare. No idea what would work on that stuff. They put a porous pavement parking lot at the world headquarters of Subway Inc. in my city. It plows just like a regular asphalt lot. Only thing is they have to put down straight salt, no sand mixed in . Good luck!
     
  3. DeereGuy

    DeereGuy Senior Member
    Messages: 346

    Thanks. Ya, I've read the requirements for Porous pavement and I do run curb shoes on my truck and the Metalpless blade also has shoes so should be good there. I only spread straight salt anyway so no change on that front.

    The geo-pave is another animal though. Geo-pave engineer said rubber edge or shoes. Course he's in the midwest with nice light dry fluffy snow. Guess I'll find out after it snows if no one has any experience with it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  4. leigh

    leigh PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,997

    Couple of pneumatic tires instead of shoes. Like a big caster wheel !
     
  5. merrimacmill

    merrimacmill PlowSite.com Addict
    from MA
    Messages: 1,822

    This actually might be somewhat of a solution. They make shoes for plows with pneumatic tires for municipal plows, do a google search and you'll find some. I see them quite often.

    But even so, if you touch a minor imperfection in grade you will rip the entire thing up. Also keep in mind, if you take up that plastic you cannot just push it back down and be done. It will sit on top of the rocks, and never be level again unless you excavate the area to the base, and re install properly.

    I personally think that the best option is a rubber edge pusher, with the edge set rather high above the shoes. With this option, the surface area in contact with the ground will be dramatically reduced over having an entire blade's cutting edge grazing the surface. If the steel cutting edge on your pleiss touches that plastic, it will not trip the blade but instead remove the plastic. However, a rubber edge pusher will have significantly more forgiveness with such a surface.

    Also consider what could happen if your tires spin during a push. Those Ag tires will most likely tear apart the surface very quickly.

    Personally, I would run and not walk from this account. That is unless they are willing to pay insane amounts of money for some type of dedicated/specialized equipment custom tailored to their situation. But then again, I refuse any service to any gravel or dirt surface.
     
  6. DeereGuy

    DeereGuy Senior Member
    Messages: 346

    Collin, I don't disagree but, this acct is my bread and butter so I have to suck it up and do it. Since I don't see any perfect solution I will have the contract state I am not responsible for damages caused by using standard industry equipment. Facilities already had a talk with them and they agreed. Worth a try but no guarentees. after all, I've never seen such a thing. I think they were supposed to put down pavers or porous pavement per the plan that I saw and have a copy of, but cheaped out. Damned if I am going to take the fall for their lack of foresight. Guessing this is a product for the south that they decided to "try out". Got nothing to do with me if they wanted to save a few bucks and forgot that, ya, gee, we get snow...

    Had em' for 10 years and my largest contract so sticking with it. I don't have time or patience for training wheels: though a safe idea. I will pick bump up the edge and hopefully move on. I also am thinking of getting a dedicated skidsteer to work the storm on that lot with an 8 ft pusher which could have rubber, This tactic is new to me. I usually don't dedicate a pc of equipment to a lot as my niche has been small multi lot routes. 3 acres is a lot to deal with during a storm with 75 percent parking turnover every hour for 6-8 hrs every day. Brutal is all I can say but safe from the nationals that stole my 2nd largest lot this yr. I saw you were selling your wolf paws for skid a while back.. Did the skid not prove to be a good solution for you?

    Taking a demo Deere 320D for a few days this week on a job to see how the iso and H non ft pedals work.. Never run a skid wo ft pedals. Should be fun. Also looking at Bobcat, Cat, NH and anyone else who will talk to me. What's your take on skids for plowing with the storm in the med frame 6-8000lb category. Aprox 75 HP? I realize the wt, traction and power can not compete with my tractor but I need turing radius in traffic and speed when clear of traffic to do this lot. Nothin seems easy this year.

    Also, do you plow Kingston area at all?
     
  7. Advantage

    Advantage Senior Member
    Messages: 766

    Where's Leon when you need him?
     
  8. merrimacmill

    merrimacmill PlowSite.com Addict
    from MA
    Messages: 1,822

    I did not end up selling them, decided to keep them. I just used my skids for salt loading it seemed. There was times in years past that I had them on lots, but then the heavy equip took over, and the skids became salt loaders. They do work very well for snow when used properly, just not that fun to be in for long durations of time unless its one of these nice new ones.

    I've owned a brand new Medium frame machine and was dissatisfied. I also owned, well still do own, a large frame Case 85xt and I'm in love with it. That machine never says no, has no payments, and does everything I want it to better than I could have guessed. Also, an important thing is that it can load a tri-axle and lift a full pallet of whatever you might have. Both useful for trucking snow, and moving pallets of icemelt around.

    I don't plow anything in Kingston
     
  9. DeereGuy

    DeereGuy Senior Member
    Messages: 346

    Merrimac, Thanks for the info. On the fence what way to go. I need a machine to plow with the storm on a 3 acre lot but needs to fit and turn in a congested area. Truck is too tight. Tractor a no go 8 hrs per day. Plan to run an 8' box. Not sure which one. Larger may not be a good recipe. May need to do salt loading duty as well, as my 1070 loader is tired. Headed to shop in a bit to see if I can get my cylinders put back together.

    Perhaps steer size point is moot if I'm not using in a building. To be honest, I do not have hardly any seat time in a skid. Makes it hard to spend the bucks when I'm clueless. If they sign 2 yr contract this week promised a skid on the lot and that would free up my tractor for other things. Hate to rent. I may lease but purchase is the best deal long term.

    Have a demo 320D in the backyard now, with a root grapple, for an area I cleared this summer. With the rain, she's not going anywhere fast. Summer duty may in the firewood business so I can see that I would need OTT aftermarket tracks in the woods or mud. I do like the iso controls and vis is good. Seems like tons of power, just not good in the slick mud. Case has a good rep. wanted to try cat too. I can't deal with any more old equip. issues so was going low or no hr machine. I am going by Chappell this week to see what they have. I don't recall seeing case there but I thought they could get them. The new deere is nice but the demo is in the $45k range..cringe.. I could save $10K on the same machine trucked from the midwest probably.

    Lost west marine to national this yr after 8 seasons...

    Thanks for the info. Ok on the kingston plowing, thought I would ask.
     
  10. merrimacmill

    merrimacmill PlowSite.com Addict
    from MA
    Messages: 1,822


    I own a Case 85xt skid steer I bought for $15,000. Best thing I ever bought, I cannot get over how great that machine is. Not the fanciest, but it is a hog. Can load tri-axles, huge 10' snow bucket, 10' rubber edge snow pusher, and in the summer just does anything I ask it to. I have over 4,000 hours on it now.

    EDIT: As I posted that, I realized I already raved about the Case in a previous post. So never mind on that last post.. Just another plug for one I guess.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  11. DeereGuy

    DeereGuy Senior Member
    Messages: 346

    Sounds like a good use of $15k. I did learn a lot with the deere rental. had a job pulling out some growth out of a retainage ditch type area. Well right off it didn't like the mud and the grades made it tough. Traction very questionable. Not too usable for that.. guess I never realized that they are well suited to flat construction sites but no much else. Read dry construction sites. Had to back out of the ditch all afternoon. Almost tipped her a couple times. I did like the iso joystick. That was just natural. I didnt use the h pattern though it was switchable. comfortable and powerful. Well I turned it in and they were planning on selling it from under me. They got some additional deere money though they didn't offer me any deal. go figure. I did look up case and the closest is up off rte 89 toward sunapee mt. A dealer that I bought my Farmi winch almost 20 yrs ago. A bit far to go for service. Also, in the iso control mode I tore the crap out of my yard etc. I'm now told the H pattern is kinder to lawns and growth. Been looking at the all wheel steer bobcats as a result. a300, newer a770. I think I could use it more in summer for turf work. Still need a summer niche. Gave up the carpentry finish work.
     
  12. MikeT2500

    MikeT2500 Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    DeereGuy I know this is an old thread, but curious how your experience went with the geopave... I have alow that went to a similar product this year and was looking for any tips or advice. Thank you
     
  13. DeereGuy

    DeereGuy Senior Member
    Messages: 346

    MikeT2500, I never did obtain that side of the account. Different lease owners that balked at my price. I can tell you that the guy who did it generally made a mess of things with stone pushed all over. He finally settled on leaving a few inches and letting it melt if things warmed. He put a lot of salt down. Things did not warm up last season though. ha.. He did play it safe and never tore it out of the ground, to his credit I guess. He used a box on assorted equipment. I'm glad I didn't have to deal with it. Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016