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Gasoline in a transfer tank?

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment' started by 2COR517, Mar 25, 2010.

  1. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    Anyone doing this? I plan to do some mowing this year. I'm thinking of getting a transfer tank for a couple of reasons. The nozzles on all the new cans suck. Dealing with five gallons at a time is a PITA. But most importantly is the ethanol in gasoline. I think that I can get No-E gas at marinas. Get 30 or 40 gallons at a time would be nice.
  2. NCat496

    NCat496 Senior Member
    Messages: 353

    When I was buying my transfer tank there were some that said only diesel and some said gar or diesel. The one I have says it can be used for both, I dont know what the difference is but I only use mine for off road diesel. I think you have to make sure the tank is grounded for static electricity, I could be wrong though. Hope this helps.
  3. Bajak

    Bajak Senior Member
    Messages: 999

    Diesel is classed as flammable. Gasoline is classed as combustible.

    I can only transport flammable liquid in my transfer tank because that is what it and the pump is designed for. I don't need any permit or licensing to do that, as long as the tank doesn't exceed 450 liters.

    I can transport combustibles in approved containers having a maximum filled weight of up to 30kgs. Maximum of 150kgs combined..... So I guess they'll only let us away with about five 5gal tanks here.

    Why can't legislators just use plain English (or French here in Canada):dizzy:

    I searched "transportation dangerous goods"...don't know if that helps.:waving:
  4. creativedesigns

    creativedesigns PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,929

    Heres my Diesel Tanker system. Features a custom mount fire plakard mounted to the backrack. I went all flashy with the Aluminum diamond plate tank. Has electric pump with auto shut off sensor. Holds 400 litres. :waving:

    ftd 003.jpg
  5. JohnnyRoyale

    JohnnyRoyale 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,935

    That looks like a real expensive setup.

    BTW-A 1202 placard must be visible from each side of the vehicle.
    Front, rear and both sides.
    You are in violation of some stupid law my friend....

    So am I.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2010
  6. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    you have it backwards.
    diesel is combustible, gasoline is flammable (throw a match into diesel, nothing happens, throw a match into gasoline, boom)

    I believe in the states, you're limited to carrying 20 gallons of gasoline without hazmat placarding (and CDL, etc) could be more or less gallons, but it's not very much. search FMCSA's website for the rules.

    I know diesel is limited to 120 gallons in extra tanks before hazmat comes into play.

    it makes sense, 20 gallons of gasoline is a bomb. won't be pretty, any spark at all. Diesel is much safer.
  7. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760


    found it

    §392.51 Reserve fuel; materials of trade.

    Small amounts of fuel for the operation or maintenance of a commercial motor vehicle (including its auxiliary equipment) may be designated as materials of trade (see 49 CFR 171.8).

    (a) The aggregate gross weight of all materials of trade on a motor vehicle may not exceed 200 kg (440 pounds).

    (b) Packaging for gasoline must be made of metal or plastic and conform to requirements of 49 CFR Parts 171, 172, 173, and 178 or requirements of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration contained in 29 CFR 1910.106.

    (c) For Packing Group II (including gasoline), Packing Group III (including aviation fuel and fuel oil), or ORM-D, the material is limited to 30 kg (66 pounds) or 30 L (8 gallons).

    (d) For diesel fuel, the capacity of the package is limited to 450 L (119 gallons).

    (e) A Division 2.1 material in a cylinder is limited to a gross weight of 100 kg (220 pounds). (A Division 2.1 material is a flammable gas, including liquefied petroleum gas, butane, propane, liquefied natural gas, and methane).
  8. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    Wish I hadn't asked now......

    I plan to get my tank (which I wouldn't need for 50 gallons) and HazMat (which I might need) endorsements for my CDL
  9. creativedesigns

    creativedesigns PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,929

    2COR, u like that Eh!

    Easy......... easssy! LOL ;)
  10. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member
    from s/w co
    Messages: 639

    Obviously another beautiful day in the land of over-regulation. Any time you are doing anything related to transportation, commercial enterprise, fun, or just about anything you can imagine you will discover a plethora rules and regulations. We all complain about the bureaucracies that impose them on us. The sad truth about it is that these rules exist due to the lack of common sense and personal responsibility of many people in our society. The current economic state can be used as an example. As crappy as our (North America) situation is I'm sure that it's harder to get and transport fuels in some other corner of the world.
    Now, off the soap box and back to subject. It is very important to have the correct hose and pump (grounded) for transferring gasoline. Most transfer pumps and their respective hoses are made for gas, diesel, oil, antifreeze, or almost any other liquid really. The pump must employ anti-sparking features or have a way to prevent the spark (from the electric motor) from coming in contact with the fuel or, more importantly, the fumes of the gasoline. Make sure they are before you buy. They will have a statement to verify this and will be UL listed for gasoline use also. The transfer tank must be well grounded (hose is usually grounded to the tank) also. Bolting it through the body/bed does offer some grounding but a grounding strap or copper wire to the frame is best.
    Are you having second thoughts? 5 gallon cans are not unregulated either. If this is a commercial venture than OSHA gets to help you decide which cans you can and can't buy (or rather use on the job site). OSHA approved gas cans are (at least IMO) expensive. You eluded to not liking the pour/fill tube in your post. Maybe you already have some. I actually prefer some of the features on the OSHA approved cans. There are a few different kinds that you can choose from so you probably can find one that will work for you. If I remember correctly (I have been around long enough to have forgotten way more than I can retain, and I have slept since then) the troublesome chemical you mentioned (ethanol?) is added to gasoline for some anti polution function or other. It does have it's downsides but I'm not sure if the marine gas you are referring to does not have it in it anyway. Your vendor may be buying (and selling) gasoline that is for automobile use anyway. It's probably cheaper. As I said before, if I remember correctly the worst thing about the ethanol is that it's basically alcohol. The problem with alcolhol is that it will attract water. This is really only a problem if you leave your fuel in it's containers or in the unit's gas tank for extended periods. I would guess that if you are cycling the fuel every week you will be OK. Especially if you top off the tanks and cans daily (good practice for gas or diesel). This will help reduce condensation in whatever vessel you are keeping the fuel in.
  11. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,107

    I've been looking into this for awhile for mixed gas for the trimmers and blowers, not so much the tractors as they get fueled nightly in the yard. Refueling in the field is mostly the small equip...
    I like these and am in the process of ordering one for the trailer. http://www.tidytanks.com/

    My understanding of posting placards is that they are generally for large amounts and posting them improperly leads to fines itself. Also heard the all sides rule.
  12. EFI

    EFI Member
    from NH / NB
    Messages: 62

    Best tanks on the market , dont try to use 'em in the states though , you'll get in deep chit . Been there done that with MEDOT .


  13. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member
    from s/w co
    Messages: 639

    Not much info or visual of either tank. Do you have any better info other than "best tanks".
    Pretty cool bed on that GMC.
  14. EFI

    EFI Member
    from NH / NB
    Messages: 62

    Sorry , only got the cellphone pics . But they are http://www.tidytanks.com/
  15. forestfireguy

    forestfireguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,276

    We have mounted gas caddy type units in our trailers, 2 each so the crews have about 60 US Gallons on the trailer each time, ussually filling 1x per week. Which was the goal, limit trips to the gas station. We mounted them high in the trailer so they gravity fill nicely. In the eyes of the over regulators I'm sure we're in violation, BUT to us it works out well...........
  16. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,107

    Did the same thing.... MTO (agent) up here didn't like it.:eek:
  17. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    60 gallons of gas is a bomb.
    I mean, look, I'm way against most over-regulations, but this isn't one of them.
    60 gallons of gas in a high mounted (illegal) tank on a trailer is a huge problem.

    I mean that's not even common sense, much less "legal"

    Get in an accident, have a spill, you're in deep trouble. EPA, haz-mat, DOT, and your insurance is going to walk away. "illegal actions aren't covered". Trailer tires (all made in china) blow up all the time.

    I'm sorry, it's your business, do what you want, but I'm glad I won't be driving next to your trailer in NJ anytime soon, that's just not smart IMO.
  18. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member
    from s/w co
    Messages: 639

    MRMARKUS already mentioned those "tidytanks". Those are ploy aren't they? That's probably why the USDOT says no way to them. Vessels must be steel down here. Lonecowboy has a point. With that amount of gas it's way worse than the old Ford Pintos. We had one when I was younger. Gasoline death traps in the event of a collision. They probably only held about 20 gallons. As was said earlier gasoline is FLAMMABLE vs diesel being combustible. Flammable is much more dangerous because the fumes can catch on fire. The fume burns very fast. Combustible means that the flame must come in direct contact to ignite. Paper is combustible.
  19. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,107

    Actually the tidy tanks are steel. And Transport Canada approved. The problem with them down there is that theyr'e not DOT American approved, not that they don't meet their requirements just your guys have a funny way of getting around to only approving American made products first. (no offence) I tried about ten yrs ago to bring in some fuel caddys from the states and they got turned around at the border for not being approved by the Canadian system, so I think it works both ways.:confused:
  20. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member
    from s/w co
    Messages: 639

    Ahhhhh bureaucracies. You gotta love 'em. I can't think of a single country that could'nt run better without them.