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Gas Line antifreeze

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by POWERBAND, Feb 13, 2003.

  1. POWERBAND

    POWERBAND Member
    Messages: 70

    Fuel line antifreeze:
    I haven't used any in a long time but my '88 rig with fuel injection recently burned up the in-tank electric fuel pump and I suspected that it was due to ice. Somewhere I had been convinced only Isopropyl type should be used with FI.
    The popular brands often contain Methyl Alcohol. I believe they used to say "not for fuel injection", but I can't find any info. I did see the popular brand HEET said not for diesel or 2stroke motors but I was wondering if there is definitive info somewhere.

    PS The in-tank pump is a puzzling setup with a DC brush motor and power leads immersed in the gas. It seemed rather dangerous, if there is a fault condition howcome the sparks don't cause ignition when the tank is empty? On my pump the commutator leaves were peeling up and the pump would blow the fuse but I was nervous after installing the new one and turning the key on! (BOOM?!?) :eek: :cool:
     
  2. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    Fuel pumps die eventually.I doubt it was the gas line anti-freeze.If you need to use it it wouldn't hurt to get the proper stuff.

    I have never seen a truck blow up due to a shorted pump.That's why they are fuse protected.I don't think they would install them in the tank on millions of vehicles if they weren't considered safe.
     
  3. Roddo

    Roddo Junior Member
    Messages: 3

    More in tank fuel pumps die from running out of gas than fuel line freeze up. The pump is cooled by the gas so running out can cause it to overheat and cause premature failure.
    Clogged fuel filters also stress fuel pumps.
     
  4. Pickering snow removal

    Pickering snow removal Senior Member
    Messages: 151

    Ditto on both repley posts the primary reason for in tank fuel pump failure is restricted fuel filters which cause a severe loading on the pump motor , example guys with chevy 5.7 vin r engines thats 96 and newer run the high presure system 65lbs have alot of premature pump failure i replace alot at 60,000 and up most all the ones i do still have the orginal filter so its a must to keep it changed at correct interval, On your question about the motor in tank and sparks causing explosion there is not a ample enough amount of oxygen in the tank to fuel the fire, Before the days of cheap replacement fuel tanks many shops would repair by brazing when i would do it i took a exhust hose attach to tail pipe of a running car and put the other end in the tank i was repairing no fire why, car exhust acts has a inert gas cool huh, egr systems work in a similer fashion to prevent spark knock,

    Anyway your pump from the sounds of it just wore out do to age but also wanted to let the chevy truck owners fyi on there fuel filter replacment. Pump replacment is not fun and if you have a 97 and newer they use a fuel pump module which can cost has much has 650.00 bucks plus labor. Also this applys to ford and dodge has well but being at a gm dealer we do alot of the gm trucks ,
     
  5. Bajak

    Bajak Senior Member
    Messages: 999

    I know it's an old thread, but it has the appropriate title for my comment.

    Now that our gas comes with up to 10% ethanol, isn't adding gas line antifreeze a little redundant? When I replaced my fuel pump last winter I told my mechanic how I had always added antifreeze at every fill up through out the winter. He then explained to me how in his opinion that I was causing more potential problems than I was avoiding. He changed my filter and strained some of the fuel through a coffee filter and showed me what looked like pepper on the filter. He said that it was bits of rubber/plastic from my fuel pump and that the antifreeze was the culprit for breaking down parts inside the pump. I don't know if that is necessarily true or not. He also explained that our gas already has enough ethanol to prevent freeze up and allow any water to burn threw the engine. This has effectively changed my opinion on gas line antifreeze. I'm changing my way and saving a couple of bucks too.

    Any other opinions out there?
     
  6. hydro_37

    hydro_37 PlowSite Veteran
    from iowa
    Messages: 3,790

    I never use gas antifreeze......don't think it is worth it in a newer truck.
     
  7. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,915

    I know I have been seeing some issues with a few handheld items with starting since the switch.

    Mainly Echo.

    Interesting thought though, and I was aware that some engines\parts have issues with ethanol.
     
  8. jomama45

    jomama45 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,172

    Mark, are you saying that your area just switched to 10% recently? I guess I may have taken it for granted for years that all major metro areas had it. Where I am is fairly rural, yet we've been using the crap for probaly 10 years now being a county that borders Milwaukee.

    For years we could drive 5 miles to get the non-oxy gas, but now due to logistics, most places "might" have the 10% gas. As for 2 strokes, we generally just run a tad more oil, whether it's a concrete saw or a snowmobile, etc...
     
  9. Bajak

    Bajak Senior Member
    Messages: 999

    The thing is our pumps here say "may contain up to 10% ethanol" in Ontario so we are never really sure. I had never paid any attention to it in the past and was only doing what I had been taught was good practice from my father, grandfather, older people who knew what they were doing, etc... I don't think the ethanol is bad for pumps, at least I would hope not (could be a conspiracy), but a lot of gas line antifreeze contains methyl hydrate and that could well be what breaks down rubber and plastic. I never really gave it any thought and wasn't loyal to any one brand of gas line antifreeze. I'm just happy someone could convince me to change my stubborn way with a well explained answer. After all it was not the first fuel pump to calf out on me. It seems it happened to me in a few of them. Pontiac, Nissan, Chevy.:rolleyes: All with less than 140 000kms. (160 000kms is the about same as 100 000 miles. ussmileyflag)
     
  10. MickiRig1

    MickiRig1 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,617

    Being an 88 it may of died from age. You run at 1/4 tank gas all the time the pump may run hot and die after a while. It may just be a bad one from the start.
     
  11. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Adding "dry gas" or other water absorbing alcohol based additives is pointless when running E10 as it's inherit alcohol content performs the exact same function already.

    E10 and it's perceived negative affects isn't normally an issue on most vehicles built after the '02 model year since the various manufactures were fully geared up in full preparation of E10 becoming country wide by then. Thus it's many pre-'02 vehicles that can and do have issues with it. Premature failure of fuel pumps and fuel level sensors were and still are the most common issues seen and experienced on pre-'03 vehicles. GM's were very common for early pump and sender failures but they all had issues with E10 as a whole. Took the manufactures a few years to catch up with E10 usage. Their replacement fuel system parts for older vehicles will also be E10 compatible.

    And the biggest issues with E10 even in a late model engine designed for it is reduced MPG's, less cylinder lubrication and slightly less cold temp start-ability. Affects some much more than others and generally the smaller the engine, the more it can affect it. Especially if it's carburetor equipped.

    But with E10 commonplace and a prediction to advance to E20 it's something that's here to stay.
     
  12. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,915

    My fuel supplier has just made the switch, really not sure about the stations. They were forced to finally go with it this past summer.
     
  13. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    We switched to E-10 last fall.
     
  14. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    Brilliant.

    Be sure to thank your environmentalists for this. So when we run out of food becuase farmers use the land to grow fuel, can we expect synthetic fuel derived from petroleum?
     
  15. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    What do you think gasoline is? :D
     
  16. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    DOH!!!!

    I meant synthetic FOOD! I must have been typing mulch too fast. Still waiting for 12V 180 watt bulbs for my Intensifiers........