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Ford Fuel tank Delaminating

Discussion in 'Ford Trucks' started by Mike NY, Dec 23, 2011.

  1. Mike NY

    Mike NY Senior Member
    from zone 5
    Messages: 103

    Ford fuel tank coating on inside of tank comming off and plugging fuel filters,regulator,pump, injectors. '07 f-450 dump. Diesel 36,000 mi. Anyone else having same problems?
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  2. fci

    fci Senior Member
    Messages: 122

    I had it happen to my 2006 f-350. Apparently it is a common problem caused by Ethanol in the Diesel or bio diesel. When it starts your fuel filter will catch some of it but it usually takes out a few injectors also.
     
  3. Too Stroked

    Too Stroked Senior Member
    Messages: 555

    We recently had the exact same thing happen to our F-550 - as I predicted it would. You'll find lots of information on it at some of the diesel web sites. (That's where I found out about it several years ago.) If you've been a real good boy at your Ford dealer, you might even get it covered under warranty. The tank alone is something like $1,300!
     
  4. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    There is stuff out there to help the ethanol from doing this.
     
  5. Mike NY

    Mike NY Senior Member
    from zone 5
    Messages: 103

    I just had the tank replaced with an "updated tank". New filters, pressure regulator, cleaned lines and fuel pump. Injectors were fine this time. No warrenty coverage though. Had similar symptoms last year. New pressure reg, two injectors then. Wonder if thats when it started.
    Very pissed that Ford wont step up. Dealer did step up and sold parts at cost. Still $2k.
     
  6. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    The Problem With Ethanol
    ‘Miracle Fuel’ Blend Retains Water, Dissolves Plastic Fuel Lines, Gums Carburetors
    By GARY PINNELL | Highlands Today
    Published: June 22, 2008 Updated: June 22, 2008 - 12:00 AM
    » 0 Comments | Post a Comment

    SEBRING - Imagine, they said back in the 1970s, when an Arab oil embargo sent gasoline prices skyrocketing from 25 to 50 cents per gallon.

    Imagine. We could grow our own fuel. We could make alcohol from corn and potatoes and soybeans, and our cars could run on it.

    It burns cleaner. It's cheaper. It's renewable. It's made in America.

    But it turns out, ethanol isn't the miracle fuel it's cracked up to be.

    Ethanol Retains Water
    "I just purchased a fuel additive made by Sta-Bil to disperse the water that ethanol causes," says Tom Moeller, a Highlands County man who was boating in Georgia last week.

    Why does Moeller's boat have water in the fuel tank?

    "Alcohol attracts water," said Bobby Willis of Central Florida Yamaha in Lake Placid. "It creates a water problem in your fuel."

    Now there's an irony. Ethanol attracts water, and watercraft like WaveRunners and boat motors are constantly in the water.

    Yamaha, says Willis, suggests installing a 10-micron filter. "It costs about $50. You can install it yourself. Just cut your fuel line and put it in the line."

    "Ten percent ethanol is tolerable for use by WaveRunners," Willis said. "It can get more drastic, especially if you're using E85."

    With the exception of BP, all major brand gas stations in Highlands County sell 10 percent ethanol. Only unbranded stations, like 7 Days, Hendricks Corner, An Foodstore and Mystik, sell gasoline without ethanol.

    Ethanol Dissolves Plastic
    "Ethanol can dissolve some solid materials," says a June 2006 Yamaha advisory to dealers. That includes varnish and rust on steel and corrosion on aluminum tanks. The result is contaminated fuel.

    "In some cases, ethanol has been known to dissolve components of the fuel system itself," said Willis.

    "Some fuel tanks and fuel lines are made of plastic, and ethanol is eating away at the plastic," said Jimmi Fredricks, service manager at Freedom Marine in Lake Placid. "It turns into a jelly, and when you get to the bottom of the fuel tank, it starts sucking it in."

    Larson Boats, which Fredricks sells, recommends using no ethanol at all.

    "Fiberglass is the worst. If you have a fiberglass tank, you need to replace the tank. Get it out of there," Fredricks says. Engineers, who have been dealing with the ethanol problem for two years, are now starting to retrofit fuel systems with plastic that can't be dissolved by alcohol.

    According to an April 9 story carried on the Dow Jones newswires, a federal class action lawsuit filed in a Los Angeles has charged ExxonMobil, Chevron, BP, Shell and other oil companies with manufacturing and selling ethanol blended gasoline that damages marine fuel tanks, engines and other components.

    "The oil companies know this fuel is corrosive, but they're keeping consumers in the dark to pump up their profits," said Brian Kabateck, lead attorney on the case. "The cost to the consumer is thousands of dollars in repairs."

    The suit seeks to represent owners of boats with fiberglass tanks who fueled their tanks with ethanol blended gasoline from a California retailer.

    Ethanol Dissolves Gum
    At the Shell convenience store on Main Street and CR 17 in Avon Park, owner Mohammed Shamim said filters on the pumps must be changed several times a week.

    "They're always clogging up," said Shamim.

    Ask any painter: alcohol is a good paint stripper. It breaks off old varnish, gums, and resin deposited by years of gasoline sitting around in tanks. Then it turns into sticky goo, plugs filters, sticks up carburetors and fuel injectors, and causes everything from mild drops in performance to complete engine shutdown, says Matthew A. Cohen, writing for teamrsm.com.

    "The ethanol found in those states' gasoline supply can cause thousands of dollars in damage to the boats," Cohen says. "Ethanol eventually pulls gums, resins and debris out of the tanks and into the engine."

    Ethanol Gets Poor Gas Mileage
    Another downside: ethanol is more expensive than gasoline. Since alcohol produces less energy than petroleum gasoline when burned, gas mileage is reduced by 10 to 30 percent, according to Consumer Reports, October 2006.

    "To see how E85 ethanol stacks up against gasoline, Consumer Reports put one of its test vehicles, a 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe Flexible-Fuel Vehicle, through an array of fuel economy, acceleration, and emissions tests," said a Consumer Reports article. "Overall fuel economy on the Tahoe dropped from an already low 14 mpg overall to 10. In highway driving, gas mileage decreased from 21 to 15 mpg; in city driving, it dropped from 9 mpg to 7."

    When Consumer Reports calculated the Tahoe's driving range, it decreased to about 300 miles on a full tank of E85 compared with about 440 miles on gasoline. So, motorists using E85 have to fill up more often.

    Joe Rutigliano of Joe's Service Center in Avon Park has seen increased complaints about "check engine" lights. Most involve the car's sensors not being able to measure oxygen correctly, which he says has to do with how rapidly ethanol burns.

    The sensor works with a computer that controls the ratio of air to gasoline that's inside the engine. What might be happening, Rutigliano said, is that unburned gasoline is being emitted from the engine because of the sensor malfunction.

    "If you start dumping unburned gas, you're talking about damaging the catalytic converter," he said. That's at least a $150 repair job. On some cars, it's $1,100.

    This is especially true for cars built in 2003 or earlier, he said.

    One customer brought in a Toyota Prius that was averaging 51 mpg. Now it's down to 40 mpg. Rutigliano is convinced it's the ethanol.

    But Kelly Payne, who owns a tree care service in Sebring, believes his older car fleet can handle it just fine. He owns a 2005 Sea Pro, a 2006 pickup truck, and operates 1980s and 1990s trucks, all using unleaded gasoline. None had a noticeable drop in fuel efficiency or problems he thought were caused by ethanol.

    Good And Bad News
    This is from Forbes magazine: "Ethanol, once heralded as the homegrown Nicorette gum of America's oil addiction, is getting a second look from lawmakers ..."

    Distilling ethanol is an energy-intensive process that often uses water, electricity generated from coal, another source of greenhouse emissions.

    Which leads to an old joke about a farmer who buys land. After the closing, when it's way too late to back out, the seller says to the farmer: "Oh. By the way. You'll need water."

    It takes three gallons of water to make one gallon of ethanol, according to domesticfuel.com. That's interesting news in drought-stricken Florida, where manufacturers are popping up to make ethanol.

    Here's a true story, repeated in February 2007 by Tampa newspapers: Florida's first ethanol plant, U.S. EnviroFuels LCC, will need 390,000 gallons of fresh water every day to run its ethanol plant at Tampa's port. That's enough for nearly 1,500 homes, which are under once-a-day watering restrictions.

    ONLINE: A History Of Ethanol

    Is Your Vehicle E85 Compatible?
    Check the 8th digit in the Vehicle Identification Number.

    Go to www.e85fuel.com/information/vin.php

    In Fords with certain engines, for instance, if the eighth digit of the VIN shows a "V" on a Ford Crown Victoria, an F-150 or Ranger pickup truck, a Lincoln Town Car, a Mazda B3000 pickup or a Mercury Grand Marquis, the car can be fueled with 15 percent ethanol.

    ETHANOL DOS AND DON'TS
    • Replace pre-1985 fiberglass tanks.
    • Replace fuel lines, o-rings and gaskets that aren't built for ethanol.
    • Inspect hose clamps and metal fittings in the fuel system for corrosion.
    • Refill the fuel tank often to reduce airspace in the tank, which reduces water condensation.
    • Install a fuel line water separator to eliminate water that collects in the tank.
    • Use fuel additives to stop fuel from aging and oxidizing.
    • Use de-emulsifying or hydrophobic additives to prevent water from homogenizing with fuel.
    Never use a fuel additive that emulsifies water.
    Never buy fuel that isn't clear and bright.
    Do not use E10 contaminated with water without a combustion-enhancing additive.
    Do not leave a near-empty fuel tank sitting for long periods of time.

    Source: Matthew Cohen, teamrsm.com
     
  7. Mike NY

    Mike NY Senior Member
    from zone 5
    Messages: 103

    Ford is blaming it on the fuel. WTF A fuel tank that wont hold up to fuel!
    Anyone know what year they started putting ethynol in fuel?
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  8. ADMSWELDING

    ADMSWELDING Senior Member
    Messages: 397

    Had it happen to my 04 550 rear tank 40gal. got it for cost $500 they said.But had to buy HFCM/Pump cost me $325 on the d-side frame rail .so $825 bucks.Truck had 26k on it.:realmad:
     
  9. MickiRig1

    MickiRig1 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,617

    It's a commend problem with certain year trucks. De-laminating of the lining of fuel tanks.
    It clogs the filters and causes shut downs of trucks. I work for a big Ambulance company. They try-ed to blame it on a certain brand of fuel. It has dirt in it. No it's the fuel tanks. I could not believe it! You own 1,000 of these trucks and you can't see a trend? They replaced 20 tanks until they figured it out!
     
  10. Dr Who

    Dr Who Senior Member
    Messages: 637

    I find it funny that now ethanol is a good thing, I remember back in the 70's and early 80's we used to advertize on the pumps "NO ETHANOL, NO METHANOL 100% Gasoline". We even had big signs by the road that stated this on a few of our stations.

    Now I was a kid then, my Dad owned several stations in Pontiac and Detroit MI then.

    Funny now a days its "good" that they put it in the fuel...

    I know this does not help or have anything to do with diesel, but talking about ethanol just made me remember it....
     
  11. wizardsr

    wizardsr PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,551

    I don't blame Ford for this, I blame the EPA and the greenies. Prior to 2007 with the introduction of ultra-low sulfur and mandatory 10% biodiesel blends in many states, I never heard of a fuel tank de-laminating. My logic tells me that Ford made a suitable tank that they had no idea was going to have issues with new blends of fuel coming out.

    As for Ethanol, the stuff is a complete joke. Thanks again to the EPA and the greenies for cramming that nonsense down our throats! :realmad:
     
  12. EdNewman

    EdNewman Senior Member
    Messages: 254

    28 trucks, 29 tanks, 1 pending lawsuit. Nuff said.
     
  13. GLLLC

    GLLLC Member
    from CT
    Messages: 43

    Yours look like this? This one is from a 2006 F550

    1111 018.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2011
  14. EdNewman

    EdNewman Senior Member
    Messages: 254

    That looks like a mix of both problems that effect the ranks. Delamination tends to be white and mushy like bad sour cream. The dark color comes from rust. The tanks also had a lack if coating around the inside close to the access panel. Think that they stuck a spray gun in the hole and could not get the spray close to the home itself. Thus is where they would rust. If they were dipped thus would not be a problem. From what I learned they used multiple suppliers for the tanks and while the materials are the same the quality if the application varied. Net net, yes I had filters that looked like that. We now found a place in Brooklyn who boils the tanks and recoats them instead of us buying new ones.
     
  15. GLLLC

    GLLLC Member
    from CT
    Messages: 43

    We have changed over to poly tanks from the titan fuel tank co

    1111 011.jpg
     
  16. moremph

    moremph Junior Member
    from NKY
    Messages: 16

    Very Common problem in these trucks, We drop tanks pressure wash em out, replace filters and put em back together

    Travis
     
  17. Mike NY

    Mike NY Senior Member
    from zone 5
    Messages: 103

    Thanks for all the comments.
    Now to address my oil pan blistering from under the paint.:realmad:
     
  18. Marek

    Marek Senior Member
    Messages: 270

    Remember Qaulity is job one at Ford. I have one truck thats on its third tank . Before there was no polly replacement . Ford installed a "updated tank" that was said to not delaminate. Got screwed for 2 k on that. Our local dealer replaces 2 - 3 40 g behind the rear axle tanks per week yet ford says there is no problems. A friend has an 09 that had to have the tank replaced due to the same problem.
    The oil pan is a fun one too , just pull the motor flip it and replace. Only around 1500 or so ..........
    Ford didnt take bail out money because they were screwing all thier diesel owners and lining thier pockets. Sorta joking about that but it sure makes sence.
     
  19. bluerage94

    bluerage94 Senior Member
    Messages: 398

    Had my 2007 F550 die two separate times during the first winter that I had it...Smithtown ford covered it including the heavy duty tow (plow and spreader was on) injectors and tank replaced...second time was due to injectors due to the particles from the old tank being in the lines. Lucky they warrantied it.