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Fisher Speed cast problem

Discussion in 'Fisher Engineering Discussion' started by ripin520, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. ripin520

    ripin520 Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    Hey guys I'm stumped so I'm in need of a bit of help.

    Vehicle equipment and history:
    1995 F350 4x4, 6 wheel dump, auto, gas V8.
    8' Fisher speed-cast, cable activated pump pulley system.

    Replaced pump before last storm because blade would drop when traveling with blade up. 3 different shops said it was the pump so I decided to change out rather then get stuck out in a storm. Installed the new pump 2 weeks ago and it still would drop when traveling but all operated fine. So my thoughts changed to the control valve but before I could address it we got ta 10" storm last weekend. It operated as usual and then when I had it angled and plowing a long drive I caught an edge. I must not have had the right cylinder retracted all the way as the plow did slightly pull back with the catch. Got to the end of the drive and no lift. No side to side angle.

    My first thought was the belt snapped. Lifted hood nope not the belt it was still on and tight, So I get back in and decide to give the truck some gas and try lifting. It worked but I had to floor it to get it to come up. Same to angle it. Once up if you let truck idle and push joy stick to lift plow will drop. So I did the only thing I could think of I parked it until I could look at it.

    Spoke to a couple places that assured me if it wasn't the new pump it was most likely the control valve. So tonight I located a brand new control valve and installed. Spools on control valve are adjusted as they should be. No leeks from any of the hydraulics or lines. Fluid to the full mark. Belt tight. ........... Still nothing with out flooring it. WTF? I disconnected the 2 plow cylinders to eliminate them and plow still will not operate with out hitting the floor board with the pedal.

    Do I have a bad brand new pump?


    Any direction or trouble shooting advice is greatly appreciated at this point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  2. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    I suppose it's possible you knocked some debris loose when you caught that edge. Maybe it's in the pump and blocking either the intake to the pump, or the outlet?

    It's too bad you received completely bogus info from those shops. Either they were stupid, or trying to rip you off. Just curious, what did the pump and valve run you?
     
  3. plowinginma

    plowinginma Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 326

    2 things come to mind.. Is the pulley on the crank the same as the pulley on the pump?.. and is the key in the pulley.. Is it the propper belt?? It does sound like a volume issue.. If it has a filter I am sure you changed it??(most did not have one).. they are directional so make sure its going the correct way.. if you have one... Can you pressure test the pump?? A cloged pressure line? Pistons packing nuts too tight?? pistons have blown packings..(you would see fluid more than likely)..Are you using ATF.. And the plow droping has nothing to do with the pump while in travel.. the valve is closed.. so bad valve or bad piston..
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  4. ripin520

    ripin520 Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    It seems like a volume issue/pressure issue.
    I'm going to see if I can get a pressure test done on the pump. I know its suppose to test out at 1400-1700psi (fisher manual).

    Parts only $350 pump $280 valve control .... my own install time.
     
  5. ripin520

    ripin520 Junior Member
    Messages: 7


    • Pulley on the pump is larger as the ford is driven off the water pump pulley.
    • The key was in it when pulley went on. So yes it is in there.
    • Yes same belt used when plow was 100% operational. Tight as well.
    • No filter.
    • I can't pressure test but will see if i can get this done.
    • If it is a clogged pressure line it would have to be from the pump to the CV as all pistons work at the same sluggish pace with motor revving..
    • No visible fluid leaks and when I disconnect the 2 plow pistons and operate the lift piston it still has same issue.
    • Yes using the recommended Dextron ATF.

    I would see fluid with a bad lift piston or any other piston wouldn't I?
    Also if it is a bad piston wouldn't I have trouble with just that one piston and not all 3?

    I am leaning towards a bad (new) pump but I guess a pressure test is in need or I could put the old pump back on and test but don't really want to do all that to have the same out come. Other option I suppose it could be a partially clogged pump to CV line?

    These old style plows are usually pretty simple when down its either a leak, a bad pump, or bad CV. This has me scratching my head and rethinking that statement.

    Thanks guys keep the info and thoughts coming as it is greatly appreciated.
     
  6. Flipper

    Flipper PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,180

    Are you sure the hoses are hooked up to the valve correctly from the pump? If they are reversed it could cause problems. The shop could have reversed them. Did they install an inline filter in the return line? Also the adjustment on the cables from the joystick have to be pretty exact otherwise you will get movement when traveling or not get correct angling and float.

    A new pump should give you maybe 1500 psi maybe 2-3 gpm. Not sure on gpm been a while since I tested one.

    Is this the pump with the resevoir attached (the classic Fisher coffe can)? Or the clutch pumps with seperate resevoirs they started using around 95-95?

    Take the chain off the lift arm will the lift cylinder move correctly without any weight on it? Lift the plow off the ground, hook the ange hoses together, you should be able to swing the plow side to side by pushing/pulling on the moldboard. If you can do that then the cylinders are all fine. Check the couplers, they catch dirt as well as the fittings one hoses, valve and pump. Maybe undo each hose check ends and blow them out.

    Eliminate all the simple stuff, then get the pump tested. I test the pumps right at the output, then I hook them back up and run the same test on the lift hose and each angle hose. This will tell you if the valve is working. Let me know how you make out.
     
  7. ripin520

    ripin520 Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    Hoses unfortunately are not reversed.
    No filter installed
    Yes its the classic Fisher coffee can style.
    Yes piston will lift with no plow attached.
    I will hook the plow piston hoses together at the plow and try swinging the plow.
    If it operates freely I will clean the hose ends remove, clean, and blow out.
    I'm also going to try to get a pressure test.
     
  8. plowinginma

    plowinginma Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 326

    after all that I would tend to say bad new pump.. Could have been sitting on the shelf a while..You are exactly right in saying they are rather simple..Not many things to go wrong.. And yes my mistake on the water pump (been a while) And 1500 is close or correct(my useless brain has 1750 stuck in there.. I could be wrong) .. I would look but all that old paper work is ummmm who knows where..lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  9. ripin520

    ripin520 Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    I really appreciate all the help I can get. This rather frustrating problem that seemed so simple to correct. I got those psi numbers from the owners manual.

    Anyone looking for the pdf of the speedcast manual may find it here
    http://www.fishersnowplows.com/pdf/6436_000895.pdf

    Its the newer mm style but the pump, pulley, and cable system are still the same.
     
  10. wirenut

    wirenut Senior Member
    from nh
    Messages: 514

    are you sure the pump is pumping??? is the key sheared or the the pump shaft broken?
    happened to me
     
  11. wirenut

    wirenut Senior Member
    from nh
    Messages: 514

    do the control cables still have spring left in them? you sure they are adjusted..did you have help so you could watch the cable and valve movement? air?
    take pressure side off of the valve body for ea piston to see fluid flow...
    what size pullies you have.
    i drive mine off the power steering pully
     
  12. ripin520

    ripin520 Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    Thanks for all the thoughtful help guys but the winner is (drum roll please)........................bad pump! I must have got the one that was built friday just before Miller time. Yeah it sux to do all this for nothing well not nothing I did tighten up the sloppy install by the previous owner so it is much neater under the hood.

    So I went and paid for a pressure test and wow 15psi @ idle at lift piston. 500psi with truck floored. Thank you. Went home and broke out the old pump (now set aside for spare) installed and she once again lifts, swings, and dances as she did. And to think all this headache due to being pro active with maintenance. What I thought was eventually going to strand me in a storm never did and the new did. Go figure. Hows that old saying go? "If it ain't broke don't fix it!" Well I still plan on replacing the pump at some point but for the rest of this season I think I'll run what I brung. I still think this old style fisher speedcast plow is pretty hard to beat as it is the only brand and style I've been using since the mid 80's with this as my first real snafu. Thanks again for all the thought you all put into my little puzzle. The advice and trouble shooting tips were just what I needed. I'll be curious to see if the plow still drops during travel with the new CV in place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  13. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    Glad you got it fixed. Can't believe none of us thought to put the old pump back in. The blade should stay up fine now with the new valve. Did you get your money back on the pump.
     
  14. ripin520

    ripin520 Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    I'll find out for sure tomorrow but I think I can confidently say yes!