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First snow and 01 has a couple issues. Advise?

Discussion in 'Ford Trucks' started by 01lariat, Dec 4, 2010.

  1. 01lariat

    01lariat Member
    Messages: 96

    First off the auto hubs. They lock, but they don't stay locked all the time. I turned them to manual lock, and same thing. That sucks. Makes me miss the 1990 manual hubs manual transfer case. Like a dumb-ass I sold my warns when I replaced the auto hubs a few years ago. Any ideas why they don't stay locked in the manual lock position?

    Here is a new one for me. Installed is an MVP western. I figured I'd listen to my cd's this morning. When I put a load on the electrical system the cd player cuts out. Switched to the radio and it did also at first. After awhile it worked fine. WTF is wrong here? The battery is older, but load tests good. Volt gauge never moved all day. anyone ever had that happen. Cd's work 100% not plowing.

    Advise?
     
  2. triple trouble

    triple trouble Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    My 01 f-250 did a similar thing. You cant take the original lockout apart to clean,repair or grease it & the factory replacement hubs are about 250 bucks per side.What i did was put a warn lockout in from auto value.They were less than half the price & work fine. As for your electrical issue,i would start with a fresh battery.
     
  3. 01lariat

    01lariat Member
    Messages: 96

    Actually you can take a lot of the factory hubs a part. I keep up on them. I just had them off a month or two ago. What gets me is they work awesome without fail before the plow.

    Here is a theory. When I'm under a load pushing snow and I use the plow functions my radio cancels sometimes and my 4x4 fails. Could it be, my problems lie with the electrical? It makes some sense being there is an electrical switch controlling the vacuum for the hubs. Could it be interrupting this switch and cutting the vacuum to the hubs? If so, what can I do about it?
     
  4. ddb maine

    ddb maine Senior Member
    Messages: 832

    if you have the switch the transfer case is vacuum activated. i would image a drop in voltage you would loose vacuum on the case. Unless your positive its the hubs, but they would be grinding like sob's if they were bad. if the 4wheel cuts out its the transfer case. and thats vacuum activated.
     
  5. ddb maine

    ddb maine Senior Member
    Messages: 832

    I 100% agree on the battery, sounds like you are loosing voltage overnight and once your alt has recharged it you are back in the game. highest cca you can, from what I understand your battery is the capacitor for your electrical system. if you turn everything on in your truck and run a plow your alt is not going to be able to handle the load some is deflected to the battery to prevent overload.

    I have had hubs go in an explorer, they grinded when the 4wd was turned on. i had them freeze in my 350, couldn't turn them from auto to lock. You know if your hubs are bad they will display one of these symptoms.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2010
  6. gusdust

    gusdust Senior Member
    Messages: 143

    Get some Warn hubs. The transfer case shift motor is electric. The auto hubs are vacuum.
     
  7. 02powerstroke

    02powerstroke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,188

    which means if the hubs are failing in the manual lock position then its the transfer case coming out of 4x4.
     
  8. 01lariat

    01lariat Member
    Messages: 96

    I had Warn hubs when I bought the truck, I sold them when I replaced the auto hubs. While Warn's work they are an inconvenient substitute. Besides by going that route you learn nothing, While the advice of manual lock-outs is a common/valid solution I might yet make, I'd rather find out why I have this situation and go from there based on that knowledge.

    I'll buy the idea of getting a new battery. It starts, and it load tests out great yet, but it is original. The truck is an 01 and the battery hasn't been replaced. I'll see if that cures anything. That plow is working it hard. The alternator seems to up fine, but it could be the old battery just doesn't have enough reserve.

    I know this much. With no plow at all, pulling a skid steer around in the snow, the 4x4 remains locked and flawless. Which leads me to believe the problem lies in the electrical system not being up to snuff for the load the plow puts on it.

    I'll brainstorm with my friends at Ford on it tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2010
  9. gusdust

    gusdust Senior Member
    Messages: 143

    OK I think I get what you're saying. I suppose the electrical system could be telling the Electronic Shift On the Fly motor to take it out of 4X4. Does the 4x4 dash light go out? Does this only happen when using the plow and putting a drain on elec. system? Mine has been a problem but not like yours. I wish I had the floor shift any day. Sometimes convenience equals problems.
     
  10. 01lariat

    01lariat Member
    Messages: 96

    I didn't notice the indicator light flicker or go out, still I could have missed it if it happened.

    Electrically speaking there is an electric switch that opens allowing vacuum to the hubs. That should have been eliminated by locking the hubs to manual. No vacuum at that point needed for them to be engaged as I see it. I still didn't have 4x4 all the time. The indicator light as a far as I know was on, but what if the transfer-case motor was affected by the load on the electrical? Might have been the transfer- case engaging/disengaging part of the time to.

    Without getting in depth tearing into the truck today I did fart around in 4x4 offroad. Worked without issues 2x4, to 4x4 lo-hi and back. To have issues just with the plow doesn't seem right, and has caught me off guard. I didn't expect to have these issues.

    I like the auto hubs, great invention and these by far are better than the first of their type Ford supplied us with. I'm with you on a manual transfer-case. I'd love to have the cash enough to cleanly convert the truck to a manual transfer-case like it left the factory that way.
     
  11. 01lariat

    01lariat Member
    Messages: 96

    Investigation finds more questions;

    Vacuum system looks like it operates as it should to the hubs. There might be a minor leak there, hard to say without vacuum pump, but both hubs lock and unlock as they should.

    Now the way I understand this is the hubs are like a vacuum operated ballpoint pen:
    • ESOF switch is turned to 4x4
    • triggers vacuum switch to allow a short vacuum pulse to engage hubs (no vacuum present after they engage)
    • when the ESOF switch is turned to 2x4
    • a short, vacuum pulse disengages the hubs (no vacuum present after they disengage)

    So no vacuum is needed to keep the hubs locked. Why would they unlock? Unless they didn't lock in the first place, that day? The vacuum pulse is timed after all. Humm??

    Issue should be solved no matter what with manual setting on the hubs selected.

    Transfer-case. That has an electric motor. Indicator light does not come on till transfer-case is actually engaged. There must be a switch that sends a signal. Ok I hear the motor run and the indicator light comes on. It is in 4x4.

    I've now tested the function of the hubs, and the transfer-case.Everything thing works in the shop.Why then the troubles?

    :confused:

    On a positive note. I rechecked the battery after the plow outing. I swear it checked it, just 500 miles ago, at the last oil change. Now, however, it comes up as weak after a 30mile drive. I double checked the charging system as well today also. It passed, but a new battery is on the list this week..
    At least I found something wrong during the shop session.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2010
  12. gusdust

    gusdust Senior Member
    Messages: 143

    With any luck it's the weak battery/ charging issue that's the problem. Definitely a tough one to diagnose.http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f5/ This site has helped me in the past with problems. Keep us posted. Good luck.
     
  13. 01lariat

    01lariat Member
    Messages: 96

    Talking snow tomorrow and the weekend. I bought a new battery, put new hoses to the hubs, and I did something else.

    I started to hear an intermediate high pitch tuning fork noise. GOOD GOD NO! Yep, the front bearings are starting. I shot in as much grease as I could. Seemed to help. No money for them at the moment. At 35mph the noise is gone. Hope I can limp it to my first pay check. Pray for epic snow fall and record money making opportunities...:mechanic:
     
  14. gusdust

    gusdust Senior Member
    Messages: 143

    Time for one or both hubs then? Can be pricey. Did the electrical solve the 4x4 issue?
     
  15. 01lariat

    01lariat Member
    Messages: 96

    Just one hub is mainly starting, but you know both are bound to be heading that direction the same time. I replaced only the side that needed ball-joints knowing it wouldn't be long. Sure enough I see the other side, since this spring has some play now to. It should hold together this plow season, but spring I will have to give it a serious rebuild. Mileage is what 145k? It's due for it.

    As fare as electrical, I don't know yet. Snow is on the way,I'm told. If it just keeps the CD player going I'd be happy. It has a brand new Motorcraft BXT-65-850. We'll see how it does.
     
  16. 02powerstroke

    02powerstroke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,188

    both my hubs went at 120 ish I did one side and the other one went 2500 miles later. so now there both new with new seals ussmileyflag
     
  17. Pinky Demon

    Pinky Demon PlowSite.com Addict
    from Ohio
    Messages: 1,121

    Screw the ESOF system. I just keep the hubs locked and flip the switch when I need it. Works much better. The Warn Premium hubs are a very nice addition.
     
  18. 01lariat

    01lariat Member
    Messages: 96

    I'm sitting here waiting to plow. Not much snow tonight, but there is drifting. I mounting up the plow and did Ma's and my drive already. Happy to say the CD player hasn't missed a beat with the new battery.

    Auto hubs? Well they are funny. I wonder if intermediately that vacuum switch forgets to open? The hubs, if they lock so far stay locked so far, just they sometimes don't engage at all with the turn of the switch.

    Bearing are on their way out. DS makes noise. Either my plow revenue, or my student aid money is going to have to cover new hub bearings. It can't be put off for too long. My truck is my everything, so it is imperative it stays top notch.

    Pinky: I'm not inclined to disagree, but I want to make every effort in making the ESOF right. It isn't a morphodite system. It has a certain amount of logic. I'm not willing to give up on it yet.