1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

First run using liquids....have questions

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Bossman 92, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,771

    Well it was bound to happen, we got our first snow! Anyhow I built a sprayer this fall and used the liquid I made over the summer and it worked...sort of.

    I sprayed 2 lots 2x over the course of one day (8am and 9pm). The early spraying was only about a 1/4" of snow on parts of the lots with a temp of about 29. I sprayed all the snow and it melted off pretty quick. The night spraying there was a little more snow, but the entire lot was covered (even in all the places I sprayed that morning), with a temp of about 20. I sprayed the entire lot, (it again worked it just took longer and I used a ton of material.

    Now the details. My sprayer is a budget build. This sprayer consists of a 300 gal round tank that sits between the fender wells of a pickup. From there I ran 1" tubeing back to a couple T's. By using the T's it allowed me to plumb into my spray bar (also 1") in 4 places. I forgot, between the 1" supply line and the first T a plumbed in a 8gpm 12 volt pump. Once the pump is turned off it acts as a electric valve and doesnt allow the liquid to flo thru (I was surprised). The spray bar is 1" pvc with those T's spaced evenly throught the bar. I just drilled 1/8" holes every 8" along the bar ( 72" long bar)

    The liquid is straight sodium chloride (haven't added liquid calcium yet) that I made myself using kabota's formulia.

    A few things I found out

    1) It takes a lot of material to acheive solid wet pavement without the calcium
    2) I think I need to drill bigger holes and maybe add a few too, as the coverage wasnt too impressive
    3)With the small holes spaced so far apart I had drive over some spots 2x
    4) The residual (sp) effect wasn't there at all, as I ended up salting everything again the next morning when another 3/4" of snow had fallen over night.

    I would like to think that after I add the calcium chloride, make the holes bigger and add more holes I should be close to where I want to be.

    Thats it! (Sorry for being so long winded)

    Now what do you guys think? Andrew
     
  2. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    Hey Andrew, here's how we ran our first liquid tank. We had a 300 gallon tote tank, we ran 2" hose out of that to a "T" (everything is 2") to a 2" PVC schedule 40 pipe and drilled 3/16 holes every 4". We had great luck with that set up. Now we have an electric liquid system and everything is a bit different. But it sounds like your not getting enough liquid on the ground. The material has a lot to do with it as well, the mix we get from our supplier is (I think) 20% calcium, 20%magnesium and 60% sodium chloride. This mix burns off at least an inch of snow in a matter of minutes in the right conditions. There is a lot to know when using liquids, humidity, dew points, snow moisture content and general temp. From what you described, it should have burned it right off and usually this stuff sticks around until the next plowing or so. But again, to me it sounds like everything from the tank to the bar is too small.
     
  3. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    OOPS, forgot to mention the system I just described was a gravity system.
     
  4. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,771

    Hey Brian thanks for your input. I searched earlier and found where you had built yours and used 2", I think that may be the direction I am now heading. The snow was very dry and power like, so from what I have learned on here it should have worked better.

    One question for you is, it sounds like you just have a 2"supply line feeding your spray bar, is that right? Also I read everything I could find in reguards to your gravity system and it sounds like what I need to do.

    BTW where did you get that 2" electric valve?

    Andrew
     
  5. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    We're fortunate to have a supplier who builds systems and sells all the pumps, motors, fittings etc. for liquid salt systems 15 minutes from our shop. If you google Dultimier (I think thats how you spell it) they are a company out of I believe Nebraska, they have everything you need. The electric shut off valve is around 250 bucks but well worth the money. I would also put a manual shut off valve off the tank just in case the electric valve fails, also you can regulate the flow a bit by only opening it up say half or 3/4 but we just left it wide open. But yeah, everything from the tank to the bar is 2 inch. Our electric system has much smaller hoses and fittings but it's pressurized, but our gravity system comes out as if it were pressurized too, just not as much.
     
  6. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    Just a tip as I tried to explain to one of our employee's.....make sure you put enough liquid down to where you can see it start to puddle up and saturate the snow/ice. Too little material can cause the lot to flash over and become a skating rink and too much down is well, just a waste of money. And I would definitely throw some calcium in the mix.
     
  7. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,771

    I am going to add the calcium to the mix before the next storm....If there is a next storm! :help:

    The calcium is a 28% ? mix with 5% geo melt added. That should work right?

    I hope its easier to saturate the ground with 2" cause 1" took awhile.


    BTW, you been ice fishing yet?

    Andrew
     
  8. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    It will definitely come out with the 2",lol. We usually drove around salting at around 10ish mph.

    NO!!!!!!!! to the ice fishing,lol. It wouldn't be bad if we were plowing a lot but not even that. We had a decent storm this past Sunday and it just finished up last night, I've had about 6hrs of sleep since Sunday night but I'll take it. Good luck, just pm me if you need anything.
     
  9. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,957

    Electric pumps just don't work the way we would like them to. Let me put it this way.....if the choice of sprayers were a single electric pump sprayer or a gravity feed system (no pump).......... I'd take the gas operated.

    The straight salt brine was not enough to keep me using it straight, I had to have 10% by volume of calcium chloride added, to work the way I wanted it to.
     
  10. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    So far so good with our electric unit. I'm sure a gas motor will move more liquid but I don't trust gas motors in the winter weather, I've even seen new Honda's with starting/running issues this year. Maybe it's just a fuel quality issue, plus it's just one more thing to put gas into.
     
  11. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,771

    Hey Kubota, the only local (withen 100 miles) liquid calcium I can find is 28% (I think) and is mixed with geo melt, but only 5%.

    If I mix that, with the salt brine (your receipe) will I get decent results?

    Andrew
     
  12. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,957

    I use 32% cal chloride @10% by volume. But I would think that 28% would work fine. I like the 90/10 I use and when its used on dry fluffy (low moisture content) snow @ surface temps from 10F to 25F it's fast. I found out that I like the streams to hit the snow no farther apart than 5 inches. When I first setup my spray bar they would hit the snow at 8 inches, it worked just took longer.
     
  13. Lynden-Jeff

    Lynden-Jeff PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,433

    28% will be just fine:

    Freeze points:

    28%: - 46F
    29.6%: -60F
    30%: -52F
    32%: -17F
     
  14. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,771

    I plan on mixing it with the sodium brine I already made, but calcium chloride I plan on mixing to my brine has 5% geo melt mixed into it.

    It should be fine, right?

    Andrew
     
  15. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,957

    A lot of the highway depts around here use mixes of salt brine/geomelt/calcium chloride. Illinois mastered the blend called super mix which is 80/15/5 I think the ratio was. That has far more than 5% geomelt.