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extreme v longer or shorter stacking stops?

Discussion in 'Fisher Engineering Discussion' started by ontario026, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. ontario026

    ontario026 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    I have seen mention of either longer or shorter stacking stops for extreme v plows? How can I tell If I have the long or short stops installed on my 8'6" extreme V SS plow? The dealer installed my setup on my 2000 chev 2500 ext cab SB, and I never received any spare stops (as I have seen it referred to that both sets come supplied with the plow) and I never received any installation/parts diagrams for the plow either. Even with timbrens I wish my plow sat higher when travelling, My dealer did tell me that I could have a machine shop cut some out of the stop to let the plow ride higher, just not to cut too much out or the push frame could contact the pump assembly... but it I do infact have the longer stops installed, then if I could find a set of the shorter stops that might do the trick as well...

    Thanks
    Matthew
     
  2. Doakster

    Doakster Senior Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 650

    All your answers are in this thread, long read but a lot of good information from people.

    http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=67747

    To give you the short and sweet answer, your dealer did not give you the short (4in) stops when you received you're plow, they come with all extremeVs and are packaged with the plow parts, you probably have the long (6in) stops on, you can also go to the 2in stops that come on the EZ-Vs as an option but those are normally for trucks that sit fairly low.

    Post back if the thread doesn't answer any of your questions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
  3. BK Hammer

    BK Hammer Member
    Messages: 64

    Simply measure the stops: 6" in overall length is long and 4" is short. I believe that the EZV stops fit and come in 2". I just got my 6" cut down to four inch. I did not really have clearance concerns, but after reading much on another similar thread I had the stops cut. The difference is huge!! I can now run around town in full V with wings and not worry about hitting curbs. Being a little more narrow (full V) is nice in traffic as well.

    Check the right trip spring clearance to pump in V. My clearance with four inch stops is about 5/8". The machine shop I used charged me twenty-five bucks and they even primered and painted for me. I can barely tell that anything was done.
     
  4. BK Hammer

    BK Hammer Member
    Messages: 64

    Not to mention some pretty sweet pics eh Doakster
     
  5. ontario026

    ontario026 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    Thanks for the quick replies guys, I just went out and measured, and my stops are 4"... At full V I only have at best 4" of air under the edges, I like travelling in full V, but I am constantly changing the V position when entering and exiting parking lots, aproaching train tracks, big bumps, etc... I think I will have the machine shop across the road knock an inch out of the stops for me and see how a 3" stop works for me.... I put Timbrens in the truck last week, and it seemed to help slightly, I have not really touched the torsion bars, but there is not much thread (maybe 1/4-1/2 inch) showing between the bolt head and the adjusting bracket so I assume the previous had already cranked them up some, I wonder if the bars have just weakened over time, and could be due for a new set of torsion bars?? Even the stock bump stops that I removed to install the timbrens were pounded to crap, and were so before I installed the plow (only been on a month or so.)

    Thanks
    Matthew
     
  6. ontario026

    ontario026 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    Here is a pic of the truck in question..... After the timbrens...

    IMG00168.jpg
     
  7. Doakster

    Doakster Senior Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 650

    If you have the 4 in stops that you have a couple of other options to look.

    Number one is to check and see how much cylinder travel you have from when the plow is completely lowered(cylinder must be fully retracted, sometime you have to push it down all the way if it's a new cylinder) to when the plow is all the way up and the stops are hitting, measure with a tape measure.

    You should have 10 inches of travel, this is per the fisher set up manual. If you don't then you need to shorter/length your lift chain to have the 10 inches, this may or may not enable you to get more height, probably not because you are already hitting the stops.

    Also I believe you can have you're torsion bar adjusted to raise the height of you truck up, i'm not extremely knowledgeable with GMs but I believe this is the case.

    BK Hammer was right on track with making sure you have enough clearance between the pump and the passenger side trip edge spring when the plow is raised.

    Also if your dealer seriously didn't give you anything as far as literature with you're plow I would be very pissed. A complete set of wiring diagram, parts diagrams, set up instructions, Hard Copy of Owners Manual, and warranty information/card. All this literature is packaged with other plow parts so they(the installer) has to un-package it went the put you're plow together, this means they simply didn't give you any of it or threw it out. I would be going back to the dealer if I were you, you paid for the information, just like you pay for an owners manual in a car, plus most of your questions can be answered from that literature.
     
  8. Doakster

    Doakster Senior Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 650

    Just looked at your pic and off the top of my head that looks like you have 10 inches of cylinder travel, so I would look at adjusting the torsion bar to raise the height of your truck and look at shorter stops.
     
  9. BK Hammer

    BK Hammer Member
    Messages: 64

    How about some ballast? I think that would probably help. I know that the computerized plow/vehicle match recommends 840# for my Ram 2500.

    Hey Doakster, what about using the lower hole on the push assembly. I think that may give him an inch or two. Also, from his pic, I noticed that he is using the lower adjustment hole on the T-frame. Ontario026, check and make sure your T-frame is level with the ground when your plow is down. If not, you will wear your cutting edges quickly and unequally.

    I think I should have bought the SS model. Those plows sure look sweet. Plus, everyone around here keeps insulting me and calling my plow a Meyer. Idiots lol!
     
  10. Doakster

    Doakster Senior Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 650

    The lower hole may help but then that may throw off the leveling, which as you know can be adjusted afterwards. I forget the push plate height guidelines in the fisher manual but the lower hole is for vehicles that are fairly low, he truck probably factors into that range. He should go back and verify which hole it's in.
     
  11. ontario026

    ontario026 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    I will have to take a look and see I am pretty sure it's in the lower holes and it appears to sit level... I forgot to mention in that pic there is a skid in the bed with 15 x 20kg bags of sand/salt on it, so about 700LBS balast behind the axle....
    Matthew
     
  12. Doakster

    Doakster Senior Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 650

    Well jeez not many other options, I'd seriously look into the torsion bar and shorter stops.
     
  13. BK Hammer

    BK Hammer Member
    Messages: 64

    I don't know too much about the torsion bar setup but maybe you can get one ton bars? Just a thought. I don't understand why these GMC products are having such a problem carrying these plows. I think the fellow in the thread Doakster linked to in an earlier post went with the two inch EZV stops. I think the torsion bars should be swapped out whatever you do though. Especially since it appears that parts of your truck were kind of worn out before you bought the vehicle. Just my two cents.

    Measure your edge height in the middle and then on the outside. Mine were becoming noticeably different in height due to wear. The reason-T-frame assembly not level with ground.
     
  14. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    Call me crazy, but what impact do the stops have when carrying the plow? When I lift my blade, I am limited by the lift ram travel. It doesn't stop lifting because it hits the stops. That would be pulling the chain tight every time.

    When stacking, my blade lifts much higher than the carry position. Even if I lift the cylinder fully as I back out of the pile there's a nice thud when the blade comes back down on the chain. I did crank my T-bars this year, has made a huge help. You may also want to shorten your chain as someone else mentioned.
     
  15. Doakster

    Doakster Senior Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 650

    I'm not quite sure I understand the questions but in the statement in bold I highlighted, that tells me that you are lifting the plow until it stops physically, but you are reaching the end of travel for the lift cylinder before you reach the stops. You don't want the plow set up this way, the stops should be the finial determination of height for the plow. This indicated you don't have you're chain length set correctly and it's probably too long. The 10 inches of cylinder travel as I mentioned above is what you want and can easily be checked.

    I'm really no sure what you consider the "carry" and "stacking" position, those are specific position of the plow it's more what the operated considers those heights. I consider stacking to be fully raised against the stops and carry being what ever you want depending on the road conditions.
     
  16. ontario026

    ontario026 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    Well from info I found I went and picked up 2" stops for an EZ-V and installed them, I haven't even driven down the road yet, but I didn't exactly accomplish what I wanted... The height under the wings at full retract did not change much at all, if I spread the plow straight, or even semi retracted I gain more height, but I don't seem to have gained much in the full retract position, It looks like height in that position can only be gained by raising the mounting point of the plow, hence getting the truck to sit higher, I took some before and after pics, I will post them soon...

    matthew
     
  17. Bruce'sEx

    Bruce'sEx Senior Member
    Messages: 873

    Maybe it's just me, but if you actually wanted more height, out of the plow. aside from all the suggestions made, it was said the use the lower holes. But sitting here picturing that. it would actually cut your height. using the lower holes brings the t-frame up and would hit the stops sooner. using the top holes would lower the t-frame and give more room before hidding the stops. Since your lowering the t-frame the angle you can left the plow is actually a larger angle when you look from ground to bottom of blade..... Not syaing this would get you much of any increase in clearance when in Vee. it was just something I have was having a hard time picture when I read to use the lower holes.

    Or am I just picturing this wrong?
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2008
  18. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    The stops have nothing to do with carry height when traveling. You don't stop lifting the blade because you hit the stops, but rather when you run out of travel on your lift ram. That's what I was trying to explain. The stops prevent the blade from hitting the pump when you are stacking, when the pile of snow is lifting the blade. You could increase carry height by shortening your chain, or lifting the frontend of the truck. People seem to have good luck with Timbrens on the front, or cranking the torsion bars. I cranked the bars, it made a big difference. If you alter the height of your truck, you will likely need to readjust the plow to sit level on the ground.
     
  19. Doakster

    Doakster Senior Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 650

    As I tried to explain earlier, if you are setting up the plow to stop at the end of cylinder travel, than this is the wrong way to set up the plow.

    The stops are designed determine the final stopping point and height of the plow, on any hydraulic cylinder you do not want to run it to the end of it's travel to prevent possible damage although some cylinders are designed to do so. As you mentioned they also prevent the plow from hitting the pump.

    As per the fisher set up instructions the lift cylinder is to have 10 inches of travel from when the piston is completely retracted (plow down) to when the plow is raised AGAINST THE STOPS, as this point the cylinder still has more travel but you are not going to use it as designed.

    Also the plow will really on raise as high as a certain point due to the geometry of the lift triangle, when it's vertical you won't be lifting the plow anymore, case in point the photo below. The cylinder is at 10 inches travel, the triangle is near vertical but not fully vertical, the plow is in fact against the stops as it should be. If the cylinder were to be able to extend a little more the plow would only be raise up a little more until the geometry would not allow it to raise any more.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    Well, that's interesting. I'll have to ask my dealer. I just didn't seem logical to me to pull the chain tight with the lift ram. I understand what you are saying about the geometry of the lift arm. Those last 5 or 10 degrees don't provide much vertical change. I did look at the plow today, and there seemed to be some space between the frame and stops. Less than a half inch. My stops are 2 inch. There has been some minor rubbing on the pump housing.