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E47 Sucking Air?

Discussion in 'Meyer / Diamond Products Discussion' started by OmahaJeff, Dec 10, 2013.

  1. OmahaJeff

    OmahaJeff Junior Member
    from Omaha
    Messages: 9

    Though I grew up on a farm in Iowa, and pushed lots of snow with tractors, I'm new to the truck-mounted plow game. I do all my own mechanical work, so I'm adept at that.

    Anywhoo, I picked up a 7.5' Meyer blade this summer, with the E47 set-up. I was told that it had been rebuilt before last season. I've got it on my '93 Chevy Truck.

    Everything is hooked up and operating properly, but here's my glitch: Whether extremely cold or moderate, the plow will work just fine when I start going. But without fail, about 2-3 minutes into the work, it stops working. The pump runs but it isn't pumping any oil. No lift, no side-to-side.

    From what I've read elsewhere, the way to "bleed" the system is to simply move the unit side to side. So I do run the pump and try that, but it does no good.

    Then all of the sudden (after about 10 minutes of 'working' the side-to-side) it will start working again - very slowly, and jerky, at first. It's like it's getting a little bit of oil. Then it'll be back to normal, and will work fine until I'm done.

    I cannot find any leaks. Though I added fluid the first time, when I let the blade down it shot it out the overflow valve. In other words, I don't think I'm low on fluid.


    So...
    1. Am I sucking air into the system somewhere/somehow?
    2. If I am, HOW do I bleed the air out of the system without just sitting and endlessly running the pump?


    Any ideas for a noob? THANKS!
     
  2. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,638

    What fluid is in it? What does the fluid look like? Are the filters clean?
     
  3. OmahaJeff

    OmahaJeff Junior Member
    from Omaha
    Messages: 9

    It's blue plow fluid. I forget the brand, but it's "specced" for Meyer.

    And I don't know about the filters. I haven't had it apart. Can you tell me where they're located?


    Thanks!
     
  4. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,638

    Should be 2 or 3 bolts right above the lower mount for the pump. If you only have 2 they are both filters. If you have 3, two are filters and the other is drain.
     
  5. jasonv

    jasonv PlowSite.com Addict
    from kannada
    Messages: 1,114

    Sounds like you have ice in it. Works until the ice plugs the intake screen, then sucks air, keeps sucking air until it warms up enough to melt the ice, then it works.

    There is literally no bleeding on a meyer pump. The bottom of the reservoir, about 2" of tube to the gear pump. Gravity bleed.
     
  6. OmahaJeff

    OmahaJeff Junior Member
    from Omaha
    Messages: 9

    Alrighty...

    As you're looking at it from the front, there are 3 plugs. The one on the top left says "DRAIN," so the other two are obviously filters. The lower left plug is the high pressure side, and the upper right is low-pressure.

    The upper-right (low pressure) screen was dirty to the point of being collapsed. I assume this could be causing my problem? I hope? I did clean both of them thoroughly, and re-formed the collapsed screen, and re-installed them. Hopefully that helps.

    Do you have a good place to recommend, for me to get some replacement filters? I'm thinking I might as well have one or two on hand.


    Also, the fluid I'm using is from TSC (Tractor Supply Company). Snowplow Aftermarket Manufacturing - No. 1307005.
    http://www.snowplowsnj.com/SAM_1307005_Snowplow_Oil_Hydraulic_Fluid_1_quart/p394841_1877014.aspx
    I assume it's okay? Or should I be using something else?
     
  7. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,638

    The SAM fluid is fine. You should be able to find the filters any where online. Better question would be, where did all the dirt come from? Especially if it only has a year's use on it.
     
  8. OmahaJeff

    OmahaJeff Junior Member
    from Omaha
    Messages: 9

    Thanks guys! Jason - your comment about possible ice makes sense. It has been unusually cold here for the last week or so. The only thing that puzzles me about that is why it would work fine immediately when I start using it - when it's at its coldest.

    And yeah Kimber, I wonder about the junk on the screen too.


    Anyway, I'll try it again and see what happens. I'll also order a couple new screens.


    Thanks so much guys!
     
  9. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,638

    There is still a screen inside the pump. Requires removing top cover to get to it. But you will also have to replace the nytite washers under the three bolts since they are not reusable. But try it with the clean filters before tearing your pump apart.

    If it had water in it the fluid would look milky.
     
  10. OmahaJeff

    OmahaJeff Junior Member
    from Omaha
    Messages: 9

    Yeah, I can't really say if it looked "milky." The fluid did have just a bit of an opaque look to it, but I'm not familiar enough with that particular kind of fluid to know for sure if that's the way it always looks.

    What the most likely way that moisture would get in there - and how much would it take to make the fluid look milky? Just a drop or two? More?
     
  11. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,638

    Most the time water gets in thru wiper seal. Doesn't take much to make it milky but more than a couple of drops. It is suggested to keep the lift ram fully extended when stored, especially when stored out doors.
     
  12. OmahaJeff

    OmahaJeff Junior Member
    from Omaha
    Messages: 9

    Makes sense.

    Thank you for you all your help! There's no snow in the immediate forecast, so I'll order the screens now, but it might be awhile before I can come back and tell you if the problem is solved.


    Thanks again - both of you guys!
     
  13. Fantastic

    Fantastic Senior Member
    Messages: 187

    Take a look at my process... I'm a newbie to the plow world. I take lots of pics and like figuring things out!! Of course with LOTS of help from this place ;) If you're going to dig in then all this should help you along.

    One difference about my pump is it's one of the oldest E-47 pumps (1973-79) made as I've got only two bolts on the front of the pump (filters) I don't have the drain plug like yours.

    http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=141261

    http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=149311
     
  14. jasonv

    jasonv PlowSite.com Addict
    from kannada
    Messages: 1,114

    Because the ice is not a solid block, it is rather a large number of distinct crystals distributed through the entire reservoir. When you run the pump, it draws fluid through the intake screen, which won't plug up with ice crystals instantly, rather it has to circulate a significant volume of fluid until it is fully plugged.

    Try giving the plow pump a shot of gas line antifreeze. In the past I've had to deal with bad wiper seals (that top seal on the lift shaft) on meyer pumps -- exactly the same symptoms as you describe, and managed with gas line antifreeze. It obviously isn't a fix, but as long as it isn't completely puking fluid out of the seal, this trick can usually get you through a season or until your new seal comes in and you have a couple of hours to install it and clean the system.
     
  15. jasonv

    jasonv PlowSite.com Addict
    from kannada
    Messages: 1,114

    A screen can be cleaned. Its literally just a metal mesh screen. Take them out, clean them, drain the fluid, clean the pump, install NEW LIFT SEAL (since that is the most likely point of leaking), new fluid, and go.
     
  16. OmahaJeff

    OmahaJeff Junior Member
    from Omaha
    Messages: 9

    Yeah, I gave the screens a good cleaning & re-installed them. Obviously I lost "some" fluid, but not all of it, so I just topped it off.

    I'll see what happens the next time I use it.

    Thank you for your help!
     
  17. Rich4289

    Rich4289 Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    You can buy the filters at any meyers plow supplier...they are the cheapest part on the entire unit lol maybe a cpl bucks each
     
  18. NickT

    NickT Senior Member
    Messages: 707

    I would drain all that fluid out and thenwith the cap off suck all the dirt and crap out of the reservoir with a shop vac There s online video s on how to drain the fluid out of the angle rams. Top off with fresh fluid. Good luck
     
  19. mpriester

    mpriester Senior Member
    Messages: 404

    if air is getting in so will water, order a basic seal kit, 2 filters and the lift ram seal, take the tank off and clean and re seal it. flush the rams and refill them. it will only take a couple hours and it will be worth it. you need to get as much of the old fluid out as possible and also make sure the hoses, connections and angle cylinder seals aren't leaking.
     
  20. leolkfrm

    leolkfrm PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,410

    go with a shot of dry gas first and see if it solves the problem