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Dump Truck....

Discussion in 'Ford Trucks' started by Mid-Ohio Scaper, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. Mid-Ohio Scaper

    Mid-Ohio Scaper Senior Member
    Messages: 610

    Looking into adding a dump to my setup and trying to figure out what manufacturer I should go with. I'm a Ford guy already, so the F650 or F750 would be the sizes I'd want to go with.
    I have experience with the F650.... I've used one with a Cat engine, and one with the Cummins engine, and by far the Cummins was much better performing. So this leads me to my next question..... Are all Cat engines worthless?
    By no means am I tied to the Ford. I've also been eyeballing Freightliner FL70 size and International 4200......
    But I have no experience with either. The majority of Freightliner's I see are equipped with Cat engines. Freightliner's with a Cummins is hard to come by.. (I'm thinking there's a reason for that...)
    The only experience I have with Navistar is what they put under Ford hoods..... (and I can't say I'm thrilled with everything they do....)

    Another question I have is why doesn't this site have a heavy duty truck area for people who run trucks that are not the big three and imports? You know...... Mack, Freightliner, Peterbilt, International, Kenworth, ect............
     
  2. Morrissey snow removal

    Morrissey snow removal PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,799

    in my opion cat makes the best motor for heavy trucks out there but the 3208 witch is probly in alot of the older fords is kinda gutless and not the best motor they ever made. look into a mack r or rd model good heavy trucks? what are u going to be doing with it?
     
  3. Mid-Ohio Scaper

    Mid-Ohio Scaper Senior Member
    Messages: 610

    My plans are to haul gravel, soil, and mulch during the scaping season, and at some point also throw a plow on the front and a tailgate spreader on the rear for salt.

    Also...... Didn't Cat phase out their over the road engines from production?
     
  4. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    freightliner new will be mercedes diesel powered. used you will find cat, cummins or mercedes power.
    Ford F-650 will be either Cat C-7 or cummins 5.9 powered.
    don't even bother looking at a 5.9 powered truck, they are gutless wonders.
    the Cat C-7 can be found from a weak 210 hp all the way up to 350 hp.
    unfortunately, most people opted for either the 210, 220, or 230 hp versions.
    with a 6 speed manual trans and a 2 speed rear, the cat performs pretty good, but will not will any races.
    with an automatic trans, the cat is fast empty, but once you put 20 ton to it it is about as fast as a 65 VW beetle.
    that don't mean it don't like to work though. the 05 F-650 single axle we have on the new job has the 220 hp with 5 speed allison trans and 2 speed rear. it is registered for 56,000lbs, and drags the trailer with machines and a load around all day long without any problems. it is just slow getting up to speed. my only complaint about the truck is the low hp rating. if it had a 300+ hp engine in it it would be a perfect truck.
     
  5. blowerman

    blowerman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,261

    While you might not see a specific area for large trucks, just start a thread and guys will chime in...

    For your main question, it doesn't really matter which brand you buy, try instead to match the needed specs to a truck that matches your price.
    For plowing and salting, look for a auto transmission.
    Are you pulling heavy loads? Bigger motor. If not, the tried and proven Cummins 5.9 or 8.3 in mid sized freightliners work great. I've run both with solid results.
     
  6. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    a 5.9 is useless for anything over 16,000lbs total weight.
    even with rear end gear ration in the 8.00 range, the 5.9 cummins is way underpowered for a mid size truck engine.
    it is a pickup engine, and even there it is nothing to brag about.
     
  7. blowerman

    blowerman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,261

    Geez, are you speaking from experience?

    I think he's looking for help not criticism.... I've owned many 5.9's and they were rock solid and pulled fine. One was set up in a FL60 matted to a 7 sp. spicer stick. The truck pulled a D3 cat just fine. I thought I wanted bigger, so one of my trucks was outfitted with the 8.3 cummins, funny how it didn't pull all that much better.

    Sure, are there bigger motors and different options; yes. But he doesn't need a C15 Cat motor in a single axel dump.
     
  8. dfd9

    dfd9 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,475

    Is the C-7 the same as the 3126B?

    Because that is the engine Ford used for 650\750's for a long, long time. I have one.

    You do realize that the 5.9 is a medium duty diesel, don't you?
     
  9. tuna

    tuna Senior Member
    Messages: 488

    Is cat making road engines again?they stopped because of all the emisions regs they could not keep up with.
     
  10. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    have you ever tried pulling out into traffic with a truck with one of those POS engines in it? you are taking your life in your hands if you do not have at least 1/4 mile of clear road.
    i have had the misfortune to have to drive enough of trucks with 5.9 cummins engines in them with every possible trans configuration to say that if i was offered one for free i would say no thanks.

    i would rather walk than have to drive another one.
     
  11. blowerman

    blowerman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,261

    tjctransport

    So what would you recommend?

    And have you pulled out into traffic with a loaded quad with a C15 Cat? Not getting up to speed real fast either....
     
  12. dfd9

    dfd9 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,475

    Actually I have.


    Had one since '97. No different than any other truck with a trailer or load of whatever.
     
  13. Flipper

    Flipper PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,180

    I haven't owned any of these, but I have driven a 650 and a International 4200 loaned from a bigger company when I need a bigger stone delivery. I saw this post this morning and brought it up to my friend who owns a company with the 650.

    They do a lot of Unilock and stone work yet he made the point that the truck actually sits a lot. They have a lot of 350/450/550 dump trucks that actually get used more. His point was in terms of weight versus volume capacity of the truck. For example they can put 10-12 yards of mulch into their 450 or the 650 in terms of volume and weight. While the weight capapcity of the 650 is a little higher (450/550 maybe 7-10000lbs cargo depending on bedstyle and 650 12000lbs) the volume capacity is not. Therefore, he reasoned that it only really has an advantage when you hit that specific range. Otherwise you have to make two or more trips anyway. This he added in with fuel mileage, insurance, maintenance, not being 4wd and limited people he will let drive the 650 make it not as productive for its price as the 450/550s he has. These numbers are for his trucks, other trucks with different options etc may yield different numbers.

    Just something to consider. Maybe you already have.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  14. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    like i said in my earlier post, i would look for a ford with a cat engine preferably 250hp or more, a freightliner with a 250hp or more mercedes or cat, a sterling with a 250hp or more mercedes or cat or an international with a DT466.
     
  15. Mid-Ohio Scaper

    Mid-Ohio Scaper Senior Member
    Messages: 610

    My diesel mechanic who works on my truck is telling me to stay away from Cat diesel engines....... should I listen to him? Or is there just certain Cat engines to stay away from?
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  16. Mid-Ohio Scaper

    Mid-Ohio Scaper Senior Member
    Messages: 610

    What about Hino trucks? Are they even worth looking at?
     
  17. mustangman02232

    mustangman02232 Senior Member
    Messages: 148

    C15 cat is usually 475-550 horse, even with 100k it will get up in traffic. a 650 is not a pickup, it will drive like a big truck
    3126B is a mechanical pump, 3126E is electronic pump, C7 is electronic with with the EGR in it and more computer crap

    twin turbo ACRT motors yes, there junk, but so are all the new emissions motors, my pete at work has a 3406E 785k on it and its never had anything other then PMs
    remember, if it aint a CAT, its a dog
     
  18. tjctransport

    tjctransport PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    your mechanic is probably telling you to stay away from cat engines because he knows nothing about them.
    if you can find a truck with an 8 liter or larger cummins engine they are good also, but the 8L and larger are usually found in larger trucks like the L series fords.
    another truck to look at is the older late 80's early 90's fords with the 7.8 ford engine. they are good engines and can be bought cheap these days.
     
  19. Mid-Ohio Scaper

    Mid-Ohio Scaper Senior Member
    Messages: 610

    I've used him and his brother for a long time. They actually work at a Ford dealer here in central Ohio and have worked on many CAT engines.......... Says he's not a fan. I know Ford used CAT in their F650's and up, so that's what I'm thinking he's talking about.... Not sure what he knows about large truck CAT engines.
    After all, I'm not looking for a a huge dump. The F650 & F750 is the size I'm after. Weather it's a Freightliner, Ford, or International remains to be decided. Boil it all down and it's up to who's got the best engine in that size truck for the money. Something used in the $35,000 to $55,000 range.......
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  20. mustangman02232

    mustangman02232 Senior Member
    Messages: 148

    my recomendation would be to look for an international 4XXX with a 26k GVW and air brakes, you do NOT need an endorsement for them any more and anyone can drive it with a med card, but you will need a class A if you hook a trailer to it. never really had problems with any of our cat motors, they seem to do better on fuel then the cummins and cold start easier as well as have a wider power band. dont forget, you could also get a 330 petermobile or kwhopper T300 around that range to, Thumbs Up