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Does this seem fair???LONG

Discussion in 'Business Fundamentals' started by SIXINAROW1, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. SIXINAROW1

    SIXINAROW1 Junior Member
    Messages: 28

    OK I need to see if this is an over charge or to see if this is fair price to the more experienced snow plow guys.
    I do my work site only. Its an auto auction and a lot of other work is done in order for my piece of mind and for us to open up and run the business correctly.
    The guy I am doing his as a sub worker as we have worked together in the past and he understands how I want it done and he has other responsibilities. He has submitted bills the other day for the snow removal I've been doing, so the process of getting paid will begin.
    I'll just give you the total accumulations for the bill I have
    Dec 10.5 inches $1300.00
    Jan 21 inches $2600
    Feb 22 inches $2750
    Total inches 53.5
    Total $6650
    Now here is the messed up part.
    I plow for my Boss(who's cheap and expects it for the cheap)
    After the bill were submitted my boss asked me why I wasn't billing him direct. I said cause I was doing it for my friend and I have no idea on what to charge as a lot of extra work is done rather than just plowing.
    He said $3325 seems a bit high. He asked me what would I have charged, I don't know.
    I don't know how to handle either my Boss or the guy I'm doing the work for.
    IMO it seems fair as I've given up a lot of my time doing snow removal this year and I've had some damage(my fault) to my truck that needs to get fixed. This is my own personal truck that I've spent a lot of time and money getting it to where it is today. Diesel fuel and just basic maintience on this isn't really cheap
    So my question is???
    How do I figure out what is a fair price?
    How do I not piss off the guy I'm plowing for?
    What do I do for next year?
    I really want to sell the plow cause it hard on my only vehicle
     
  2. IPLOWSNO

    IPLOWSNO PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,620

    Your just doing one place? And it's hard on your vehicle? Are you plowing with the storm?
    Ramming banks?
    Are those snow falls all at once of over the month?
     
  3. goel

    goel PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,079

    Total accumulations are worthless. How many events? How long of work on average event?
     
  4. wilsonsground

    wilsonsground Senior Member
    Messages: 201


    You and the guy you're plowing for should have set a price on things ahead of time, whether it be by the hour, inch, push, job, whatever it may be. All this should have been done before work started.
     
  5. SIXINAROW1

    SIXINAROW1 Junior Member
    Messages: 28

    Dec 3 events hours are 12+/-
    Jan 4 events hours are 16+/-
    Feb 4 events hours are 18+/-
    I realize it should have been discussed before but we never did. He was the maintence man at this building and is good friends with the owner, and Ive worked with him before.
    When I got the truck with the plow I gave my boss a very fair estimate on plowing the lot. He just threw it in the trash. He said that what I pay rent for. So now comes the time to pay for it and he's crying about the bill.
    Yes just one place. My auto auction and the road leading into our parking lot.
    I start when the storm is just about over. I take my time and don't beat on the truck at all. Wherever the snow is pushed its piled up from there. I don't ram the banks at all. There is plenty of space for the snow.
    I realize I did it all wrong this year but I need to correct it for future snow falls. Ones coming this Sun into Monday.But I need some form of money from past work. He will drag not paying until the summer.
     
  6. IPLOWSNO

    IPLOWSNO PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,620

    How are you damaging your truck? Pushing too much snow!!
     
  7. Whiffyspark

    Whiffyspark 2000 Club Member
    from SOMD
    Messages: 2,402

    How big is this place? Cause it sounds like you're severely over charged. $150+ an hour for a snow storm?

    Always push with the storm. Your customer shouldn't have to oay for your inexperience
     
  8. Camden

    Camden PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,598

    x2

    Terms should've been discussed prior to any work being performed. Pretty much rule #1.

    But now that you've done the work maybe ask your boss what he thinks is fair. It's going to be a low number but then explain to him how you arrived at your figures.
     
  9. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,157

    I'm confused. Who loses money if it isn't plowed...? Being nice and being a sucker go hand in hand in this business. If you can't afford fuel to plow this lot you can't afford to plow this lot...
     
  10. nepatsfan

    nepatsfan Senior Member
    Messages: 727

    Why are you billing for 3 months all at once?
     
  11. SIXINAROW1

    SIXINAROW1 Junior Member
    Messages: 28

    The guy I'm doing the work for is doing the billing and he takes his time doing it. My Boss would lose business if the place isn't opened. Used car dealers will come out in any weather to buy a car. They think they will get it cheaper because it's snowing out. I have experience but made a few mistakes. They way I figure it if I was home and he actually had a plow company come and do it then there wouldn't be any damage to my truck. But since I'm a sucker/nice guy I go and plow.
    The lot is big so it can hold all our inventory for our weekly auction. I don't think $150 an hour it out of place with the work that is done. The lot is always opened up, cars snow broomed off, moved, plowed where they were and then parked where they need to be. The lot is down to asphalt when everything is done the way I do it
     
  12. Whiffyspark

    Whiffyspark 2000 Club Member
    from SOMD
    Messages: 2,402

    150 is generally skid steer rates. What kind of damage exactly did you do to your truck.
     
  13. jhall22guitar

    jhall22guitar PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,044

    Pictures of the lot?
     
  14. Triton2286

    Triton2286 Senior Member
    Messages: 654

    You have two boss's? I don't get this. If you are plowing for someone else then why are you sending a bill to the owner of the auction place?
     
  15. nepatsfan

    nepatsfan Senior Member
    Messages: 727

    I'm confused by the whole scenario too but I would say if you expect to make 150 an hour as a sub in a little truck your expectations are probably too high for this business. It can be hard on trucks but and you will break stuff but that doesn't mean you send the bill to the owner. It's a cost of doing business. Your rates should be discussed up front. I would be willing to bet that they could easily get two 3/4- 1 ton pickups as subs for the price you want for 1 and that would be a fair rate.
     
  16. nepatsfan

    nepatsfan Senior Member
    Messages: 727

    I wish I could get 150/hr for a skidsteer. I feel like the rates are pretty good around here too at least compared to most of what I see on here.
     
  17. k1768

    k1768 Senior Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 487

    He said the cars are cleaned off and moved so the area the car was parked during the event is now clean as well. Wouldn't that additional labor increase the per hour rate compared to just sitting in the truck and plowing around the cars? I'm not sure if it would call for $150/hr, but its gotta be more than what a driver never getting out of the truck would get.

    Regarding getting your money, I too am confused about who you are working for and why you're doing work without knowing how much you're getting paid, when you will get paid, and who will be paying you. With that said, best of luck, hope you get paid somehow, and learned from the whole experience.
     
  18. jhenderson9196

    jhenderson9196 Senior Member
    Messages: 615

    If he's billing hourly, he's charging $150hr to clean and move cars. As was prev stated, you could probably find 2 trucks for that price and be done in 1/2 the time.
     
  19. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    I read this again,I think he is subbing for a guy who has the contract on this place,The sub is the employee of the lot owner,I think the boss wanted to know why he is not doing it himself and billing him instead of having a middle man.I think?
     
  20. nepatsfan

    nepatsfan Senior Member
    Messages: 727

    The other thing is, cleaning and moving cars isn't worth 150 an hour or even 75 an hour. I guarantee you could find a young guy or anyone for that matter to do it for 25-30 an hour but let's say for the sake of argument that you can't. Throw an ad on craigslist and offer $50 an hour to clean and move cars. I guarantee your phone wouldn't stop ringing for days. You would have your pick. It's not worth more money to do that. I would suspect you could easily find a responsible person for 20-25 an hour to clean the cars off and move them- it certainly wouldn't drive the plowing rate UP, if anything it should go down or just stay the same. It's kind of like shoveling- a lot of guys don't like it but I can't charge the same for shoveling that I do for plowing, it just won't happen.