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Do you salt on Sundays

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Antlerart06, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. Antlerart06

    Antlerart06 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,437

    Well was out this morning for 2nd Sunday treating for Ice for less 1/10''
    My route on this Sunday wasnt very big Temp now is 36 high today mid 40s
    Started to freeze at 5 am So did my run Now its melting at the un treated lots

    Here is my question??? I have for everybody
    You know going to melt at noon and the Store/Dr Office is Closed on Sundays
    Would you treat there parking lots???

    There was a Snow company treating everything Lots that wont open till Monday
    And maybe its in there contact and it says its ok

    To me its ripping people off Maybe Im to nice
  2. ducaticorse

    ducaticorse PlowSite.com Addict
    from we
    Messages: 1,426

    Nice has nothing to do with it. It is solely a liability issue for me. Whenever there is an event, I send out an intent to service email to my clients, I have them send me a written response in reply to my email asking not to be serviced if they choose to go that way, which will release me from any liability in the case of a slip and fall on a weekend when they may not be open for business. Nice gets you bit in the ass. Always be proactive, and always get everything in writing.
  3. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    I'm sure they are per salting if they are racing out to salt before it melts. Ducati,just because you sent out something Don't mean it will release you,the old saying if your going to sue,sue everyone and let the judge figure it out.
  4. Burkartsplow

    Burkartsplow PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,248

    Salt salt and salt some more if the contract states to salt when there is ice present on property. I always have people cutting through my sites in town and I can see someone slipping and suing
  5. ducaticorse

    ducaticorse PlowSite.com Addict
    from we
    Messages: 1,426

    It's not what I send out, it's what they send back. I do realize nothing is bullet proof, and even if you are vindicated in a lawsuit, there are still costs involved defending oneself, but some of that may be recoverable in a counter suit. You can greatly reduce the chances of being sued by crossing the t's and dotting the i's.
  6. BigBoyPlowin

    BigBoyPlowin Senior Member
    Messages: 301

    Before I get of topic for a minute, I say if they havent complained to you, Salt it.
    "If they say we're not open on sundays." Tell them, they're not just paying for a salted lot. They're paying for lost sleep on your part and effort of going out and checking their site.

    Ducati, In MY OPINION you're wasting your time, Let alone you're losing money. I live off the money we make over the winter (to an extent)..Hate to be your business coach but you're letting the customer run YOUR business. The way we run our company is we use OUR best discretion as to if the account needs to be serviced or not. If so, we just do it. I don't have time to call or email every customer and ask them if it needs to be done. My customers arent awake at 4AM...During a storm.

    This is the main reason why 98% of my customers are All Inclusive. I'm paid up... And my customers aren't worrying about if im out pre-salting, Salting twice a day, etc.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  7. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,032

    Most PM's don't want to be bothered with that and I wouldn't either. If there's ice we salt it, 7 days a week we do site checks. If they have a problem with it they can contact me.
  8. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,106

    I agree...most businesses are closed and can't be contacted on Sunday anyway. Plus an event is hard enough to predict let alone sitting around waiting for a response for a go ahead. I live by the rule, do what needs doing and sort it out later. If they have a problem with Sunday service, they'll let you know, and you can adjust your contract then.
  9. JTVLandscaping

    JTVLandscaping Senior Member
    Messages: 860

    I agree with everyone...just do it until told otherwise.
  10. Antlerart06

    Antlerart06 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,437

    I alot good points there I ran to town just got back Wife wanted Icecream and temp was 40 and there was a guy salting
    So I thought I watch him He left and I got out and pavement was wet not slick
  11. BigBoyPlowin

    BigBoyPlowin Senior Member
    Messages: 301

    Sounds like he did a good job.. The pavements supposed to be wet/ not slippery when I leave. Thumbs Up

    No maybe he had a complaint, or Has an all inclusive contract.. Who knows.
  12. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,106

    Crap....now I want ice cream.
  13. ducaticorse

    ducaticorse PlowSite.com Addict
    from we
    Messages: 1,426

    No worries about coaching me on running a business, because what you say is your opinion, which does not apply whatsoever to my business model. I run a very tight, highly communicative operation where I get much done with a very small employee base/overhead due to the close proximity of my accounts and the specific market I am in. No one but me "runs" my business, and without you actually having a first hand account of what I actually provide my clients, you really shouldn't be telling me how to run the show.

    I never ask anyone if they want salt, I keep them apprised of the situation, using a simple mass email, it takes all of one minute to write out. If there is any gray area as to triggers, it gets worked out here. I do use my discretion, and all I am doing is reassuring the customer that their properties are being well maintained. This past storm I only had one person cancel salting because their business is closed all weekend, and that was the first time anyone did this season. They save some money, and I save some time. No problem there to me.

    And to the person who said no businesses answer emails on a Sunday? Well, they do where I'm from.

    In the end, my point is that communication is the key. If you don't salt because you were trying to be "nice" then you will have a slip and fall on your back. If you get a stand down order from a client on paper, then you are better covered than if you don't..
  14. Antlerart06

    Antlerart06 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,437

    Not on my back if someone falls Its in my signed contact Im not liable for a claim of a slip or fall in a lot I service and yes it holds up in court trust me I been there few times Might lost a few contacts but I didnt lose my shirt If a customer has it in there contact I wont sign it I'll pass it up
  15. JTVLandscaping

    JTVLandscaping Senior Member
    Messages: 860

    I liked your approach, seemed pretty proactive. Likely, whoever you're emailing is responsible enough to check their email all weekend. I remember in 2011, one of my sites wasn't at the 2" trigger, and I called the PM at 11pm when I got on site. It needed service, snow with freezing rain on top. She said she couldn't authorize it below 2 inches. 10:30 the next morning I get a call that it needs to be done. She insisted it was 2 inches earlier, and rather than argue, I did it. Last year and this year I used that day as my selling point for zero tollerance, and no permission needed, and now I really don't like doing anything but zero tollerance. Any time you communicate with your client is a positive for your business...in my opinion.
  16. crazyboy

    crazyboy Senior Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 296

    You never know when the business owner or someone may stop in to grab something, only takes one second on a bit of ice to slip.
  17. ducaticorse

    ducaticorse PlowSite.com Addict
    from we
    Messages: 1,426

    You may have gotten lucky the times you were in court. But I will tell you that in MA, you are not released from liability because of a " not liable" clause in your contract. To be honest, that idea is nothing short of laughable. However, if you have in writing that a custy decided not to have you manage a site on a particular night, then you are better off than not.

  18. Eggie329

    Eggie329 Senior Member
    Messages: 123

    I have enough idiots trying insurance fraud while I'm servicing my sites such as the old "accidentally" step of the sidewalk in front of the plow trick. Or the infamous park behind me and hope I don't see you. If they found ice that I didn't treat, they would light me up with claims!
  19. blazer2plower

    blazer2plower Senior Member
    Messages: 544

    I have 1 commercial that is zero tolerance and I salted yesterday. Was anyone there no did it warm up over the night yep. But no ice is no ice. I will do what I feel is write. Until I'm told to stop. And I get it in writing from them. Not a phone call or an email. A FAX or letter. And salt is cheap. A lot cheaper than going to court.
  20. Maleko

    Maleko Senior Member
    from Ct
    Messages: 776

    ^^ AGREE^^

    SAlt is WAY cheaper than a lawsuit.
    My insurance went up $800 from last year. I have ZERO claims. My agent said there were record number of claims last year. So the Insurance Co. is covering their butt.