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do you have employee's?

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by powerjoke, Jan 8, 2008.


do you have employees ?

  1. NO: just a solo operation

  2. 2-3 employees full time (snow work)

  3. over 4 employees full time (snow work)

  4. i use subs and no "full time employees)

  1. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    i was just wondering b'cause alot of the post i see on PS have something to do with:

    paying sub's

    sub's getting paid


    etc. and what the heck is a "lowballer" i see the term get tossed around alot and i thought i knew what it was, but any more if a guy loses a job or does not get a job the other guy is a "lowballer"

    i guess i could be called a lowballer b'cause i charge any where from $45-$105 per hour but i get jobs b'cause of quality work, and i "steal" a lot of jobs from my competetors.

    and for those of you wondering, i employ a few full time and several other part-time. and YES we carry work comp. pay into un-employment etc. we are a completely ligit company (llc) and i am happy with the money i get paid from my client's, we don't get gob's and gob's of snow here but we are the premier snow removal guys in our town
  2. merrimacmill

    merrimacmill PlowSite.com Addict
    from MA
    Messages: 1,822

    I think the term "lowballer" gets tossed around way to much. There will always be that other guy out there that can afford to charge a little bit less than you. And there will always be those customers out there that will be willing to leave you to save a few bucks (assuming that your doing a good job).

    What I've always thought a lowballer was is someone who intentionally charges a significant amount less than you. Just joe blow that drives around with his personal truck, no company, no business license, has no insurance, pays no taxes, and just does any driveway, with any amount of snow, for a flat rate that is usually around half of what you charge.

    I have a $30.00 minimum. Theres a guy around here that goes around plowing driveways for 12 dollars a drive, and he does an entire neighborhood a couple towns over. My father lives in this neighborhood, so I do his driveway and a couple of his neighbors asked me to plow the driveway, once I told them $30 dollars they were outraged. They couldn't believe how "expensive" I was. But then I go back a couple towns and people think I'm completely reasonable. You win some, you loose some. Its just part of the business. I think that these people are frustering at times, but they won't last. And I don't think that you qualify as a lowballer PJ. The lowballers just aren't worth complaining about anymore.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  3. Peterbilt

    Peterbilt Senior Member
    from IA.
    Messages: 745

    I have 6 employees.

    And PowerJoke.

    I to am getting sick of the guys complaining about lowballers.

    Face it. If you lose a job its because you aren't doing a good job. I do know and agree that business and the like want a cheap contracted work. But they get what they pay for.

    I have been called by two customers in the last week that I bid and didn't get. They are firing the lowbidder and want me to do it. Not because of price but Quality of work.

    I run 6 guys and myself. I am not the biggest but I am trying to be the best in my area. And in some opinions we are one of them. I can provide these services not just because I am good at what I do, but because every member of my team is great at what they do. When you have guys that pay attention to detail and care about what they are doing and not to mention LISTEN to what I need done. Everything goes well and I don't loose accounts.

    I have lost 1 maybe 2 accounts so far in 2 years. Both dues to cheaper bids and it doesn't bother me at all. I don't complain, don't get on here and rant to everyone that will listen. It just not a big deal because 1 or 2 accounts isn't going to make or break me.

    So next time you loose an accont, Look at the service you were providing. Chances are its your fault you got replaced.

  4. montanag

    montanag Member
    Messages: 53

    3 employees, 5 subs. All have been excellent for several years and I am thankful for it. My employees are year round sprinkler and landscaping employees, the subs are as close as I could get to having 5 more of myselves running around. I agree about excessive "lowballers" talk. We don't win every bid we submit, but we usually can prescreen potential new clients simply by asking them how they got our name. If it's word of mouth we go in and bid appropriately. If it's out of the phone book I ask if they going low bid. If they say yes, which some do, we tell them thank you but someone else will probably come in lower. I then say that if they are looking for reliable, 24 hour service with the ability to reach the owner of the company during snow events we can provide references and a free bid. It has worked well for us. I still think that people's existing client list are their best potential source for growing the business. Sorry to go off on a tangent. Greg
  5. ohchit

    ohchit Junior Member
    Messages: 29

    Power what is the name of your company?
  6. DBL

    DBL PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,310

    me my brother and 3 full time year around employees....2 or3 extra guys when needed
  7. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,425

    4 full time employees year round, plus myself and my father.

    5-6 part time employees for plowing\shoveling using my trucks and equipment

    4 subs--1 with a skidsteer, 1 with a JD 544G and 544J and another with Cat 950G. The J & G have ProTech foldout pushers, the G uses an 18' at several sites, then uses a 16' at 3 other sites/
  8. YardMedic

    YardMedic PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,266

    Solo operation with a few subs for backup. It's generally worked out pretty well, but having others on the payroll would often help move things along some!
  9. dakotasrock

    dakotasrock Senior Member
    from MN
    Messages: 260

    I AM an employee this year :redbounce
  10. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    [here is my website http://www.crossroadskennelsllc.com/stunzfullthrottle.htm

    mark i bet the deere's will sure make up some lost time with those big pusher's
  11. Jay brown

    Jay brown PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,783

    i have 2 full time year round and usually 2 that help out here and there. also have 2 subs i use for snow plowing..
  12. cornbinder

    cornbinder Senior Member
    Messages: 347

    i've got myself, a full time employee but that employee doesn't plow unless it's an absolute emergency. he's plowed once in five years for about 20 minutes. basically he's my fulltime mechanic, he's on call when it storms. i have 2 subs that use my trucks when i need them. when we get a basic 2" or 3"snow i do it all myself anything over that i call my sub(which is my cousin) when the going gets tough i call my other sub (which is my best friend) and i have a friend that does snow removal we help each other out if needed. lowballers are lowballers, they are trying to make a few bucks too. they need to stick to driveways or billy bob's corner store. when they cross the line and start bidding on commercial stuff for half the going rate, then they become a "lowballer" and people have a legitimate gripe. i do quality work and don't have to worry about other contractors as i have a good working relationship with all my accounts. later, pete
  13. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,032

    1-Fulltime plus myself and Dad
    6-partime just when it snows and another 4 wanting to work but I lost a big job.
    1-sub with skid steer
    4-subs with tractors.
  14. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,425

    I don't mean to nitpick, but if your 2 'subs' are using your equipment, they're not subs, they're employees.
  15. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    calling them subs would be a good insurance "loop-hole"

    but i would think they would be employee's too?
  16. cornbinder

    cornbinder Senior Member
    Messages: 347

    i guess it depends how you look at it?? they help me out if i need it when it snows and use my equipment, they are not on "the payroll" though. i just pay em cash $10/hr. they both have full time jobs and enjoy doing it more than anything.so i guess you can call it whatever you want, all i know is it's cheaper than paying a "sub" with their own equipment at $45/hr. we all make some money have fun and congregate at my shop when we are done put on a pot of coffee and b.s. for awhile. yeah i guess you could say yer nitpickin a little, ,but that's ok.they are my subs just using my equipment, or under the table employees take your pick. later, pete
  17. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,425

    Oh, I'm sorry, you're breaking the law that way, instead of the other. I feel much better now. Thanks
  18. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,990

    The insurance companies, and the IRS have very strict guidelines as to the differences between sub- contractor and employee. Unless you can prove they had their own EIN and/or you filed form 1099 and they provide certificates showing coverage for GL, workmans comp, completed work, etc... insurance. That they file and pay unemployment, retraining, etc...costs, and meet various other guidelines they will be considered employees.

    What are you going to do if one of them has an accident? What are you going to do if you get sued? You can not say "I had two guys there all the time" if you have no payroll records? If you do have them "bare witness" then you open yourself up the insurance and tax fraud. Believe me if you list a employee on the Witness list they are going to demand all payroll records (if they hadn't already). Your insurance company will want W/C money the State and Feds penalties will total far more then the taxes. You will legally have violated the contract by having un-insured/ill-legal employees.

    Funny how an illegal immigrant a NO NO but so many feel creating the same issues of non taxation, failure to pay proper insurances etc... is acceptable if it's a good old American boy that's cheating on taxes and insurance:confused:
  19. dunlaps lawncare

    dunlaps lawncare Senior Member
    Messages: 111

    me and my wife and 2 part time subs
  20. cornbinder

    cornbinder Senior Member
    Messages: 347

    you guys didn't research enough. if i don't pay out more than $600 per person cash i don't have to file a 1099 or actually anything for that matter. so actually i'm not breaking the law for you guys that go by every word in the book.