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Do you bill snow removal if you???

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by snowman5313, Jan 21, 2010.

  1. snowman5313

    snowman5313 Member
    Messages: 86

    Back in Sept. I bid out a group of stores. If I got the work I would have had larger equipment to move any size storm within reason. All snow would have been pushed to a single place and or farthest away from the front of the store. Come to find out through the second contractor of the places that my numbers where not too far off. Back in December we had about 15-20 inches of snow and the contractor didn't handle it. They pushed snow everywhere. Front stalls, islands, you name it... They also didn't get to afew places and were let go. The second contractor came in and plowed everything how I would have. Then I got a call to help move snow piles from everywhere to piles it should have been done the first time. They told me that they get to bill out a regular snow plowing. Thats fine. But then they get to bill out hourly for moving snow on the lot. WHAT THE HELL. That bill was almost as big as the whole month of december. That the management company can bill the company itself out for the work justifing that it was a larger snow.

    PS is that ethical or just good business?
  2. WIPensFan

    WIPensFan PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,468

    Snowman, you lost me on this. I'd love to try and help you but I don't understand what you want help with.
  3. DugHD

    DugHD Senior Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 420

    Say that again.
  4. slongfellowii

    slongfellowii Senior Member
    Messages: 157

    I think he is saying normal plowing gets pile in temporary spots. Then loaders come in to move it to a central location. If than is true then I see no problem in that. But it is written in the contract that was and the customer is aware of it.
  5. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,107

    Perfectly ethical and in my opinion good business sense. Trucks are push and pile quick access. Equipment for moving it around at additional charge if needed.
  6. hydro_37

    hydro_37 PlowSite Veteran
    from iowa
    Messages: 3,790

    They are just trying to save money.
    Ethical and good business for them
  7. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,885

    yeah very confusing, but i think your saying

    Client of the property had xyz contractor plowing "not a great job", so they call your company abc company, and say look we can pay you per hour or for the cleanup and just bill the xyz contractor? Yeah id say theyre going to get into a s623storm there... be careful too, too many times ive seen in the contractor line of work and snow, company contracts you to do the work they says, go pound sand, collect from the xyz company, NOT us... had that happen this past spring with a near 50 yard mulch job. Long story short, we were paid ONLY for the 42 yards we originally had brought onsite by a dump truck. All labor, fuel overhead etc was lost in the job.

    Client claimed to the contractor we subbed the work from that the job wasnt finished. They had another company come in independantly, billed the contractor like half of what we charged for doing the whole 50 yard job, and all they did was about 10 yards worth.
  8. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,885

    yeah some clients expect the lot to look like a loader made one pile far away in a big storm, not gonna happen.

    Idea is just like said above, trucks move in and out fast and move the snow fast, theyre certainly not going to spend 4x the time to push all the way from one side to the other when they can do it faster by moving it all to one side etc.
  9. snowman5313

    snowman5313 Member
    Messages: 86

    Let me try again. The snow should get pushed away from the building. But since it was a big snow they pushed it every where. So they got paid a full plowing. Then they got paid to move snow from everywhere to the piles it should have gotten pushed to the first time. To me, it pisses me off that they got paid to move the snow a second time when it should have only gotten paid once. Thats whats bothering me.
    I did the same thing in a couple of my lots but I don't feel right charging extra for a service of temporary snow piles. It saves time and money during big snows (day plowing). But thats why I charge a percentage on snow totals.
  10. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,107

    Sounds to me like your dilema is the difference in contract wording. Have you seen the other proposal? This may be how they do it. They might look at your proposal and say this guy works cheap, does the same work for half the price. (Not saying you do but that is how a competitor with this wording might see it.) As long as you have the work to keep you busy, I find that worrying about what the other guy is doing really is a waste of time. Worry about your own business. You'll find it's time better spent.
  11. snowman5313

    snowman5313 Member
    Messages: 86

    I normally just care about me and a few of my buddies that i will help out (they help me when I need it). But it was just funny that I bid out the same work. Then my buddy took over that lot and was telling me what kind of money and numbers where being thrown around.
  12. big acres

    big acres Senior Member
    Messages: 653

    Sounds like your buddy isn't enough of a businessman to zip his lip on the numbers.

    Since most vendors agree that trucks are the only way to clear snow under tight deadlines, we push it to nearest perimeter of lot going away from the front of the building. If corner stalls and other areas begin to fill up, then the client can decide if they want to spend extra to have them moved.

    You tried to sell them on loader work during the storm, and most of your competition did not. This probably cost you the account, as I'm sure you could have bid it lower without including hours to move all snow to one spot. I never include loader work unless the client requests it or it is one of those properties that absolutely has to have it done.
  13. Longae29

    Longae29 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,954

    If the property specs out a loader will be used to plow and pile the snow then its not ethical to charge them to come back and move the piles. If it were me....and a truck driver was piling snow in handicap spots, by the building, in aisles, up against loading docks.... i'd come back and move the piles no charge. we have one account that we have agreed to use a skidsteer at so the piles can be stacked nice and high, during a snowfall earlier this seaon the machine broke down and the property had to plowed with 3 trucks, the next night we took the wheel loader down there and stacked the snow no charge since it was our issue.
  14. forestfireguy

    forestfireguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,276

    If a loader is used to plow with a pusher/box thats one thing, coming back to relocate snow is different, unless it's all inclusive. HOWEVER, if they didn't servcie the site properly, as it seems they didn't, they should be making an adjustment in their billing. Do they have a blizzard clause?