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do these snow numbers look right to you

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by pvtwaggs14, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. pvtwaggs14

    pvtwaggs14 Member
    from nw ohio
    Messages: 51

    All bids are based off of one truck with one worker, and how long it will take that one person to do the lot. All lots are charged at $125 per man hr. Then the base rate is multiplied for how much snow there is.

    125 per hr so:
    base x 1.5 x 2
    Time 1in - 6in 6in- 12in 12in+
    30min 62.50 93.75 125.00
    45min 93.75 140.62 187.50
    1hr 125.00 187.50 250.00
    1hr 15min 156.25 234.37 312.50
    1hr 30min 187.50 281. 25 375.00

    Thanks for any input.

    wes:salute:
     
  2. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,699

    Trying to follow this.....

    1"-6" is a large spread ~ so is 6"-12". Are these your specs?

    Are you saying it will take your truck 50% longer to plow 6" vs 1"? And twice as long to plow 12" vs 1"?

    Do you know what your production rate is in square feet/acreage?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
  3. Plowfast9957

    Plowfast9957 Senior Member
    Messages: 280

    " All lots are charged at $125 per man hr."


    If you are charging $125 per hour why does it matter how many inches there are?
     
  4. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,699

    He seems to be offering his formula for per push rates based on snow depth.

    Maybe I'm just not following what he is saying....
     
  5. pvtwaggs14

    pvtwaggs14 Member
    from nw ohio
    Messages: 51

    I should have put that the prices for all the lots are based off of 125 per man hr. They want to know how much it would cost per storm depending on how much snow we get. Its kind of like a guide line of how much it would cost them. I give a price for each lot based on how long I figure the lot will take and with more snow it always takes longer. in my experience which is not much compared to others on here that 6 inches does take about 1.5 times as long as it does for a 2 in storm.
     
  6. pvtwaggs14

    pvtwaggs14 Member
    from nw ohio
    Messages: 51

    Right it would be a per push rate based off of 125 per hr then based off of how much snow is on the ground. do you believe that a 4 inch spread is better?
     
  7. Rc2505

    Rc2505 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,245

    I do 2 inch spreads, just because it is the most accurate way to bid them. I use 1-2.9, 3 to 4.9, 5 to 6.9 then a straight hourly rate for anything over 7 inches. I see your from NW ohio as well, so you should know that we don't get many snowfall totals over 7 inches. Also I base my totals on a 24 hour period, from 12 0'clock midnight to 11:59, so if it is a 2 day snowfall I am able to charge 2 times. I hope all that makes sense.
     
  8. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985

    I am also confused...It seems like a collision of 3 price structures...Per-Hour, Per inch, and per occurance....Plus your increments on the per inch side are to big...It should be 1-3, 3-6, 6-12 qnd 12+......
     
  9. pvtwaggs14

    pvtwaggs14 Member
    from nw ohio
    Messages: 51

    Ok i am going to try to explain the pricing system to see if it help.. I am looking at better ways to figure out how to charge. The system that I have been using and I'm trying to explain is something that my dad used for many years while I was growing up. It uses all 3 ways to bill but in the end the prices are normal about the same. Just as an example we will use a parking lot that takes 1hr to snowplow. If you charge $125 flat rate when there is a large storm you loose money because you spend more than an hr there. If you only charge by the Hr then business owners and managers say you are sand-bagging their lots to make the bills higher. When there is more snow it takes longer and it is harder on your equipment which is why my dad came up with the system it seemed different to everyone that worked for him but his employee's all liked it after they figured out the system.

    $125 per hr is the goal of everyone that I know. when the snow is over 6" then the lot takes 1.5 times as long to do it, and when it is over 12" it takes almost 2 times as long. this way he was able to put a price down for a lot based off how much it snowed and could back it up using the other ways.... so I guess it is kinda confusing... what would you suggest to simplify this for my bid for the gas stations. they are very involved with there snowplowing and watch the times that your there.

    Thanks for all the advise
    Wes
     
  10. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Will they go with a seasonal contract? One price divided over 5 months. This way they'll know how much it will cost them and you'll know how much you'll make.
     
  11. pvtwaggs14

    pvtwaggs14 Member
    from nw ohio
    Messages: 51

    I have though about that doing a seasonal contract. I will set a price for any storm then times that by 10 and say they are covered from 8 - 12 storms with the set price for 10. If we end up with less than 8 storms they will get money back and if we get more than 12 storms they will owe me more money. I know a a few larger accounts around the area that do it that way. What are you feelings about that. Also that would only be for the snowplowing i still have the salt figured out I think... but I will put it here to so you can check that out.

    i am putting together my bid for plowing and salting 11 gas stations around my area they are all on one contract. I have done the math and came up with a price it seems a little low to me what do you guys think.

    I would be using 650lbs of salt if the salting is to be done after the snow plowing is complete it would be an extra $260 that would be $0.40 per pound of salt spread. If the salt is being put down before a storm or only an ice and the lots are not being plowed then I charge an extra $5 for every station to offset the fuel price that is already added in if I was to plow. that brings the total to $315.

    Do the numbers add up for they way you charge also or do they seem low. Any help both good and bad is better than nothing. Thanks for the help....

    Wes
     
  12. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    You would be breaking the spirit of the the seasonal contract by charging more and giving money back.
     
  13. pvtwaggs14

    pvtwaggs14 Member
    from nw ohio
    Messages: 51

    Hummm so you think just one price for the whole season and it makes or brakes me seems like that could be like putting my business on the line to faliure. If we have a really bad winter where the is 20 storms and I only bid for our normal 10 or 12 I will be out a lot of money but if I charge for 15 and we only have 5 yeah I make money but I'm sure I will have one less client for next year. I am thinking I am going to go with a per inch price for the lots seems to me like the best way to go.

    Any more input is welcome trying to make a important business decision.

    Thanks
    Wes
     
  14. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

  15. Longae29

    Longae29 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,954

    Dont get yourself all confused with "combining pricing whatevers" just come out with your charges. Make a simple to read contract. Have it reviewed by a peer with more experience, or a lawyer.

    Plow 1-3 $x.xx 3-6$x.xx 6-9 $x.xx 9+$x.xx

    Salt $x.xx (i think your rate of $.40 is awful high, but if thats your price, thats your price)

    Seasonal $x.xx all inclusive (figure out your averages for your area, how many times you plow how many times just salt. Dont give any money back, dont be looking to ask for more, seasonal contracts are nice, guaranteed money. if you have to plow an extra time or two, next year may be a time or two less)

    Remember: It's only gambling if you don't know what you're doing.
     
  16. pvtwaggs14

    pvtwaggs14 Member
    from nw ohio
    Messages: 51

    Salt $x.xx (i think your rate of $.40 is awful high, but if thats your price, thats your price.)

    The $0.40 price I came up with is based off of $20,00 per 50lb bag of salt that seems to be a number that everyone seems to use and when you break it down it gives you the .40, I was leaning more towards the .35 I don't know if I will be using bag salt of bulk salt it all depends on if I can get a spreader for bulk before winter. but my price will be the same no matter which I use. I don't agree with the people that charge different rates for just rock salt. 50 lbs is 50 lbs do you raise the price when you run out and have to pay more for a bag or two......

    im pretty sure im going with 1-3, 3-6, 6-9, 9+

    Next question would be do you charge per storm or per 24hr period of time? I have always done it per storm not per 24hr day.
     
  17. Rc2505

    Rc2505 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,245

    Wes, I will tell you why I have always done the 24 hour time period instead of the per storm. About 10 years ago I had a customer complain about my numbers for the total storm. It was a two and a half day storm the came and went but dropped a total of 14.5 inches of snow. He argued with me and refused to pay the bill. It was a 5 acre site and the total bill at the time was around 1,500 dollars. Long story short I eneded up taking him to court over the bill, and he won because the judge said that I had the term per storm written in my contract, and he proved that it was one low pressure system that moved into the area, and didn't move out for 2.5 days. So even though it wasn't a constant snow fall, it was one storm total. So I changed the language in my contracts through my lawyer, and haven't had a complaint since. Now I am not claiming this is the only way to go, it's just that I got burnt once, and this was my way to correct the problem. Also I am not a lawyer, but don't say 1-3 and 3-6 because you have a grey area of 3 inches. Although you might want to charge the 3 to 6 rate the customer is going to want to pay the 1 to 3 rate. This is why I put 1 to 2.9 and 3 to 4.9 in my contracts. It stops all the grey areas before they have a chance to bite you.
     
  18. pvtwaggs14

    pvtwaggs14 Member
    from nw ohio
    Messages: 51

    RC205 Those are some very good points, I am learing from every post in here and spend many hrs a night reading the different blogs. The per storm vs 24 hrs seems like a good idea but as an example how would you bill for this storm.

    1) It starts snowing at 9pm there is 2 inches on the ground before midnight the storm ends at 9am and there is 7 inches of snow total.
    2) same as above but you have a must be clear by 6am clause for when their work day starts.

    thanks for the input
    wes
     
  19. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    When I did do some per plows,they paid each time I dropped the blade. If I came back an hour later it was a per plow again. You need to try and keep it simple for you and them.Try and get everything "black and white" ,it snows I plow you pay.
     
  20. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    So your highest rate is 9"+ meaning you will bill the same amount for both a 9" and a 24" storm?