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Different Liquid Solutions

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Vaughn Schultz, Oct 16, 2008.

  1. Vaughn Schultz

    Vaughn Schultz PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,565

    So here is the deal, I'm getting into liquid this year. I have my sprayers, holding tanks and all that crap figured out but I would like some advice on the actual solution.


    These are the solutions that we are considering:

    Brine solution plus 10% Calcium Chloride $ 0.45 / Gallon (per mixed, delivered)
    85%Brine %10geo55 5%Calcium Chloride $ 1.35 / Gallon (per mixed, delivered)

    Another solution we can mix ourselves would be the Brine solution plus %10 Calcium chloride and then we could add geo melt at out shop for about $3.00 per gallon giving us a
    80% Brine,10% geo, and 10% cal for about $0.75 / Gallon (delivered)

    My questions are:

    1. What mix would you chose?
    2. Can they only be used as a pre treat ?
    3. Do you have any other or different solutions that may work better?
    4. What kinda results can we expect to see?



    Thank you !

    I would really like to get some responses form people that have actually used liquid or work closely with someone that has. Lets keep this a very informative thread.

    Respectfully,

    - Eric
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2008
  2. rblake

    rblake Senior Member
    from dayton
    Messages: 291

    I will be new to liquids this year also. I have looked at caliper, brine solution, sugar beet - I will be trying a natural well brine that has sodium, calcium and magnesium in it. Just to expensive to try to have several options stored in bulk. I guess if i dont get the results out of the brine solution, then i will add some beet juice that I already use on my bulk salt.

    Thought about making my own brine, but then you need the $6,000 machine etc etc.
     
  3. DKG

    DKG Senior Member
    Messages: 199

    I have used liquids since 2001-2002, for anti-icing and pre wetting. I think salt brine gives the most bang for the buck. I have also used a propriatory mag-chloride/corn steep blend. I found it was twice as good as salt brine, but not 10X the price as good
     
  4. rblake

    rblake Senior Member
    from dayton
    Messages: 291

    DKG - when you use it for anti icing, what increase in rates do you do ? I know temp and
    type of snow would change things. Will be pretreating lots this year and then salting after we plow. Just wondering if I could use the liquid brine at a higher rate if we run low on bulk salt. Thanks
     
  5. hiranger

    hiranger Member
    Messages: 72

    I was wondering where you are getting the brine solution? The companies that I have talked to are just trying to sell expensive products. I too am trying to supplement my salt usage due to the fast that I am only able to get a third of the salt that I normally can get.
     
  6. rblake

    rblake Senior Member
    from dayton
    Messages: 291

    luckily, there is a supplier 2 hours from me that will deliver 5000 gallons at .20 per gallon. I believe i got a qoute for caliper 5000 or 500 for around $1.70 per gallon which is being trucked from indiana or illinois. I know my sugar beet from natural solutions comes out of indiana.
     
  7. DKG

    DKG Senior Member
    Messages: 199

    I apply brine approximately 50 gallons/acre. It helps with a cleaner scrape after plowing thus saving on the amount of salt after plowing. I have also used straight liquid in place of light salt applications. For hardpack or ice, definitely stay with salt.
     
  8. icemen pro

    icemen pro Junior Member
    from central
    Messages: 4

    has any one ever used GEOMELT if so what is a good price for buying it thanks keith
     
  9. rblake

    rblake Senior Member
    from dayton
    Messages: 291

    Dkg - thanks, I am probably wrong, but isnt geo melt and caliper the same product. Just different manufactors due to location in US. No i have not tried it but have heard it works very good and clean.
     
  10. hiranger

    hiranger Member
    Messages: 72

    Geomelt is sold about an hour from where I live. I was quoted $3.00 a gallon for 275 gallon totes. I didn't think that was that great of a deal that's why I am asking about where to get the brine solutions.
     
  11. DKG

    DKG Senior Member
    Messages: 199

    Geomelt, Caliber, IceBan etc are all similar just like Coke & Pepsi.
     
  12. mike_dmt

    mike_dmt Member
    Messages: 39

    Anyone work with MELTDOWN? Its a mag chloride product made by Envirotech?
     
  13. Vaughn Schultz

    Vaughn Schultz PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,565

    Brine solution plus 10% Calcium Chloride

    So are you thinking this should be a pretty hot mix?

    Thanks
     
  14. DKG

    DKG Senior Member
    Messages: 199

    Sounds like a good mix, cost etc. I would go with a 90% brine 10% calcium or geo wichever has the most value, and keep a separate tank of calcium or mag to heat it up as conditions warrant.
     
  15. Vaughn Schultz

    Vaughn Schultz PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,565

    how much cal can you put in there before it starts to get "slick"?
     
  16. T-MAN

    T-MAN PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,363

    Who is selling the "Super Mix" in IL ?
    I spoke to Mike from SNI and there products look good but the price is high.
    The Super mix looks do-able, with out breaking the bank.
    I know McHenry County uses Super Mix for everything now.
     
  17. DKG

    DKG Senior Member
    Messages: 199

    Cal & Mag get slick neer the freezing point 0c/32f. You would be heating the mix below -10c so slickness shouldn't be a problem. Having 10% in the mix should be ok.
     
  18. DKG

    DKG Senior Member
    Messages: 199

    Cal & Mag get slick neer the freezing point 0c/32f. You would be heating the mix below -10c so slickness shouldn't be a problem. Having 10% in the mix should be ok.
     
  19. SnowMatt13

    SnowMatt13 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,533

    Todd,

    Algonquin Twp. has a deal with McH.County to use their Supemix as well......
    Talk to a MCHDOT driver, sometimes the supermix isn't so super in their opinions.
    Super Mix is 85brine/10geomelt/5some type of chloride

    Rblake....you don't need a $6K machine. I produce it in-house and it cost me less than $2K to do it. Pump, 1100 gallon tank, metal stock tank, plumbing supplies and gravity! I can make 1100 gallons in about 8 hours......
    After intial investment I made it for approximately 5 cents per gallon last year.

    We are blending ouselves this year in-house, one of very few who do. McHenry County does and I am not sure of any other muni's. We are using 80%brine20%GeoMelt55
    We are getting our liquid fromSNI
    Cheaper if you buy in bulk......2000 gallons or more
    Staying away from the chlorides......
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2008
  20. DKG

    DKG Senior Member
    Messages: 199

    I make my own brine also. My brine maker is essentially a 45 gallon barrel.