1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

Diesel VS gas...Cont'

Discussion in 'Ram Trucks' started by UglyTruck, Feb 10, 2012.

  1. UglyTruck

    UglyTruck Senior Member
    Messages: 210

    Well, Here we are. I have started a new thread to continue the discussion that PlowGuy43 and I have been having in the last thread we hijacked. I hate it when other people do it so I try not to do it myself.

    Anyway, the discussion is about the benefits of Gas heavy trucks Vs Diesel heavy trucks.

    ***********NOBODY IS GOING TO WIN! *********************

    This is a discussion, not a "Mines better than yours" debate. so if you're gonna start bashing one or the other just stay away.

    IF you want to contribute, dispute, or ask questions, please feel free to join in. Thumbs Up

    QUOTE FROM LAST THREAD:

    Great info and yes I'd go crazy with the goodies on a diesel, but I digress.

    I'm doing an oil change with full synthetic this weekend. 7 quarts and filter is about $30. I'll do it every 5000 miles which for me will literally be twice a year, but just for arguements sake you could assume 3 times a year at that mileage for a daily driver (assuming 15k per year). How many miles do you go between oil changes in the Cummins? (seriously asking)

    Front end parts I'm saying generally in a 3/4 ton they wear out faster simply due to weight. Plow or no plow the front end of a 3/4 ton truck is holding more weight than a half ton (especially the trucks he's considering). You are correct that both will need replacing if running a plow.

    As for the tire rating, P rated tires go to 2000lbs I believe, which should be fine for a plow that a half ton would be rated for.

    Good info here, keep it coming. I enjoy discussions like these that aren't a bashing, but real solid information from experience not "hearsay" (I may have spelled that wrong but you get the picture)
     
  2. snowlovr

    snowlovr Junior Member
    Messages: 25

    well here is what I have experienced. Used to have a Ford 3/4 ton V10 gas. did not have much problems but was not a lot of power. but for the most part was pretty good, usual u-joint. So then I went to the Dodge diesel 5.9. First the power was a HUGE difference. A TON more power and not much can stop it. the diesel is more expensive but is fine with the power increase. I have noticed that with the diesel and plow, I have all ready pretty much rebuilt the front end. and oil changes are a lot more but its farther between changes, The diesels are supposed to get a lot more mileage on the engines wish is a big plus.
    So in my opinion like the power of the diesel. Have only had the 2 trucks so cant compare beyond that.
     
  3. UglyTruck

    UglyTruck Senior Member
    Messages: 210

    What kind of synthetic are you buying for only $5 a quart that seems very cheap for a full synthetic?

    When I first got my truck I put off switching to syn due to the "Extra Cost of oil" but with synthetic you have the ability to run a much lighter weight oil and maintain the same lubricity and increase the longevity of the oil. This breaks down in my head like this:

    1: I can run a lighter, thinner oil and get the same engine protection. this means that I have a thinner oil that in the summer months that circulates faster at all temps providing more "fresh oil" to all moving parts. since it is thinner it offers less resistance to the parts that it is lubricating resulting in requiring less energy to move those parts. overall this translates to less resistance in the rotating mass of the engine which results in better fuel economy(about .75 mpg in my case). and in the winter at startups it is much easier to start my truck because it is easier to spin the engine at start-up when the oil isn't the viscosity of dark molasses. + the increased circulation and fuel economy once up to operating temp.

    2: Synthetic oils are meant to run for extended periods without breaking down the way that conventional oils do. so my question to you is. " why only run a 5k interval when 3-5 K is the spec interval for a conventional oil change? the whole reason for switching to a synthetic is to extend the interval by extending the life of the oil. I put between 20 & 25 K on my truck every year. due to crank case blow by, oil filter changes, and the occasional drip I introduce between 5-6 quarts of fresh oil in a year.
    Conventional wisdom says "the oil gets dirty, that's why I change it."....Okay, but then what is your oil filter for? its there to get rid of the pieces of "dirty" that are large enough to harm your engine. That's why I change the filter every 2-3 months. its like changing your furnace filter. the next step for me would be to switch to a bypass filter. these units are in addition to the conventional oil filter. they constantly run a small % of the oil that is circulating and run it through a MUCH finer filter that cleans all contaminants out of the oil.

    I do know truck drivers that run full synthetic in their big rigs and also run bypass filters. Many go Years between oil changes. not that they dont add oil, and they do send in oil samples to get analyzed every few months, and change the filter cans in the bypass units, but if the oil is cleaned and does not break down, why change it? it still functions like new.

    My point is, I switched to synthetic originally to make it easier to start in the winter and to get better mileage. but found out that there are a lot of other benefits that come with it as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2012
  4. UglyTruck

    UglyTruck Senior Member
    Messages: 210

    As far as the front end parts, i don't think that 3/4 tons wear out any faster than 1/2 tons. the 3/4 ton parts are beefier to begin with and in theory (yes, i gave myself an out by saying "in theory") take roughly the same time to wear out if the usage of the trucks is about the same.

    As far as price comparison, I cant say that I have compared them, i just don't think that heavy duty front end parts I have bought are seem outrageous compared to half ton & light truck front end parts I have bought.

    The problem I have seen with the 1/2 ton trucks is that they are now made for the gentleman driver. they are not made to be used as a truck. people don't want a truck that rides like a truck, they want a car that looks like a truck that rides like a lay-z-boy. once you put a plow on a front end that is built for ride it self destructs.

    Dodge front ends are notorious for their problems, I cant dispute that. the ball-joints they use from the OEM are CRAP! , but I think that a large majority of the bad press is people thinking that they never have to do any maintenance to them. they wait until everything is shot and then the whole truck is a POS because it broke.

    I know this is going to draw a ton of fire, but my personal opinion is that half ton trucks with plows should not be used for commercial plowing. if you want to plow yours an your mothers driveway and that of a few friends then fine, do so. but don't expect a 1/2 ton to hold up to a full season of real route-work. and don't whine when you have to replace stuff

    Okay....let me have it:cry:
     
  5. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    3/4 ton is not a heavy duty truck, regardless of engine.
     
  6. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    If this is a discussion about HD gas vs. HD diesel,then why are you talking about pickups,oil types/changes, and front ends?????
     
  7. plowguy43

    plowguy43 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,269

    This is a thread that is an extension of another thread asking about the purchase of a half ton gas, 3/4 ton gas, or 3/4 ton diesel. Pro's and con's of each. I'll post up more on Monday my phone keeps messing up and not posting.
     
  8. Cover Guy

    Cover Guy Senior Member
    Messages: 224

    I don't see How you justify a diesel with extra cost of the motor fuel and oil I always ran a diesel till about six years ago granted I don't pull as much as used to but I can't see how you can come out ahead with a diesel also I drive 45000 miles per year just my thoughts
     
  9. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    Yes,I know what Ugly truck wants to discuss,only he's calling it wrong.A HD truck starts at a 6500 or F650,etc.,NOT in a pickup platform.
     
  10. peteo1

    peteo1 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,660

    Ok maybe you guys will have some insight on this one...I have an 04 hemi 1500 and I used to get about 11.5 mpg. Now I am getting 9.8. Wtf!?!? Any ideas as to why the drop off? I'm not driving any different and I do all of the regular fluid changes regularly. I don't get it.
     
  11. Stik208

    Stik208 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,316

    Winter blend fuel.
     
  12. LwnmwrMan22

    LwnmwrMan22 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 27,997

    We run full synthetic (Amsoil) in our diesels. I change oil every 15,000 miles.

    I have an '06 2500 that has 80,000 miles on it.

    We put (2) tires on it, 2 winters ago when one of my drivers rolled it onto the passenger side.

    The exhaust has broken off from driving the tailpipe into frozen snowbanks.

    We've put 1 bumper on so far, and there's another one that needs to go on this spring.

    We put 1 front outer u-joint (passenger side) in. Operator error from plowing, being hung up and tearing out the u-joint instead of waiting for a tug from another truck.

    Other than that, we've done nothing. The front tires are original, the brakes are original (don't squeal), nothing.

    2500 / 1500 / 3500 are not all built the same, so they are able to handle different weights and last accordingly.
     
  13. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,632

    What does the HD stand for? :confused:
    [​IMG]

    Just though I would fuel a completley different topic. :laughing:
     
  14. Triple L

    Triple L PlowSite Fanatic
    from Canada
    Messages: 5,988

    Fords putting the gas V10 in their 650 now, a few guys around here have gas 6500 gm's...

    International is working on putting a gas motor in the terrastar as well
     
  15. Grassman09

    Grassman09 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,806

    Harley Davidson :confused:
     
  16. UglyTruck

    UglyTruck Senior Member
    Messages: 210

    So if you fully understand what the discussion is about all you want to do is troll the thread and complain that my nomenclature isn't correct?

    Fine.

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    CORRECTION:

    THIS THREAD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HEAVY DUTY TRUCKS>>> IT IS A DISCUSSION OF GAS V DIESEL PROS AND CONS WHEN COMPARED IN LIKE VEHICLES LARGER THAN 1/2 TON AS KNOWN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC BY THE COMMON "PICKUP TRUCK PLATFORM" ANY ILLUSION OR REFERENCE TO TRUCKS LARGER THAN THIS IS COINCIDENCE AND IS UNINTENTIONAL IN ADDITION TO APPARENTLY BEING OFFENSIVE> FURTHERMORE PLEASE STOP REFERRING TO TRUCKS THAT MAY FALL INTO THE PICKUP TRUCK CATEGORY AS HEAVY DUTY> THEY ARE NOT< THEY ARE SIMPLY GLORIFIED STATION WAGONS AND SHOULD HAVE ALL "HD" BADGES REMOVED, BURNED, & SCATTERED TO THE WINDS!

    THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME :salute:

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
     
  17. plowguy43

    plowguy43 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,269

    I agree to an extent and maybe its the "old fashioned frame of mind" but I go a max of 5,000 miles regardless of the oil I use. I'm a fleet manager and have lost engines with as little as 8,000 miles between LOFR's BUT this is on conventional oil. May be different with synthetic but I choose not to take the chance in my own rig.

    Are you two finished with being overly "literal" regarding the definition of a heavy duty truck? Please contribute to the thread or pass it by. :rolleyes:

    Winter blend Fuel, and depending on mileage, you should change your plugs but use cheap copper plugs, NOT platinum. HEMI's should have new plugs about 40k mile intervals and hate platinums.

    Pathetic that you need to spell it out like that, but its obvious they were poking the bee's nest.


    Here's my thoughts regarding a half ton truck. A half ton is always carrying less weight - you'll put a smaller 7'6" plow on it, carry less ballast, and the truck itself will weigh in at about 1,000lbs less than identical 3/4 or 1 ton truck. Sure the front end's nowadays aren't as strong as they used to, but they still hold up fairly well. I know the Dodge has weak tie rods and struts from the factory but they once again have very nice aftermarket parts available. Guys are running large lifts with 37" tires on them with minimal issues. I guess my point is that given the reduced weight, the half ton will use less fuel and wear parts less quickly. As you mentioned its a known fact that Dodge 3/4 & 1 ton front axles are weak mainly because they cannot be greased. The 03+ front axle also use small ball joints (about the same size as a CJ7) and are at an angle placing all the support weight on the bottom ball joint. The top really doesn't support any load. That on top of a sealed hub that isn't well sealed (can't grease it), dries up and fails often. The ujoints are also too small on the 03-09's and once again aren't greaseable.

    Replacing a wheel bearing on a half ton is easier and cheaper than a 3/4 ton, the CV's also don't tend to fail like a u joint on the 3/4 tons, ball joints are also fairly simple as well.

    Now thats not really apples to oranges because on a already heavier 3/4 ton truck you'll probably be carrying a bigger plow (8'6"+ or V or wideout etc). Mearly stating if the previous OP had a few accounts to plow but 90% of the time it was a daily driver, the Half ton would hold up well.

    I plowed for 3 years with a Dakota using a HD 7'6" Fisher, went through 1 wheel bearing, replaced ball joints (only bottoms failed, replaced uppers since I was in there), and front shocks during that time. It never gave me a problem unless I was plowing a parking lot that was the size of a football field post storm (it was a foreclosure), then the snow would weight too much and cause it to stop.
     
  18. james.j.smith

    james.j.smith Senior Member
    from 19033
    Messages: 145

    subscribed
     
  19. snocrete

    snocrete Banned
    Messages: 2,862

    he hehe he

    deisel freaks around the world hate you for saying that!....btw, you throwin any salt today?

    Answer: Dodge



    Sorry, couldnt help myself.

    he hehe he

    :laughing:

    Hey, when there isnt much snow....poking the bees nest is fun for these guys.....especially when there's 6 billion other threads arguing/discussing this very subject.Thumbs Up
     
  20. V_Scapes

    V_Scapes Senior Member
    Messages: 943

    Good luck, I hope you didnt buy a Hemi for fuel economy. theres nothing you can do. i had the same truck and always got about 11.7mpg. i had a CAI in it with the 20" wheels and never really romped on it. powerful,reliable motors with terrible mpg's.