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Did Mass DOT do away with 3/4 and 1 tons?

13K views 43 replies 23 participants last post by  Big Dog D 
#1 ·
I am looking over the newest rate sheet from Mass DOT and the smallest truck listed is 11,000gvw and over....
Looks like they have done away with most smaller equipment???? Anyone confirm?
 

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#27 ·
Oshkosh;1071490 said:
WTF, NH DOT starts at $11 per hour for truck drivers...It takes 8 years to get up to $17 per hour...No one is getting rich much less making a living wage in the state system here in NH...
I've heard the"You are lucky to have a job" speech,That is B.S sorry we live paycheck to paycheck and month to month working for the state here.It sucks frankly....We have to have winter O.T to survive.
I would say that 60% of the state employees I know have second and or third jobs just to get by...
This state should be ashamed at how they treat their employees...They wonder why they have huge turnover,why they have to buy automatic transmissions,Why jobs go unfilled months at a time in the worst economy since the great depression.
Get this ,our "Union" wants to know what we would be willing to give up to appease the Governor this next negotiation.......
Out of the eight guys in our two sheds all eight would leave if offered the same pay in a different line of work.Whats that tell you?
If you are thinking of working for the state,talk with me first,if you have half a brain you will be glad you did...
We wont even get into the lack of maintenance of the equipment that was on the trade list three years ago that we are still running.The fact that we are keeping trucks much longer than their useful first line life and we have hired no extra mechanics...The list of stupidity is endless....It goes right to the top!
I'm not trying to start anything but this gets me annoyed as a guy who works his tail off and as a taxpayer. Nobody has a gun to anyones head. If you don't like the pay or the work or the benefits or anything go find a different job. It's as simple as that. Before I started my hardscaping company 7 years ago, my employer paid me $15 an hour and said right to my face "You are going to make me a lot of money this year." Well, 2 weeks later I quit and opened up shop and now I have to work exponetially harder but I'm making more money. If I don't find work, I don't get paid.

People, and I'm not saying you Oshkosh specifically, but people have an entilement attitude. Yeah $11 bucks an hours sucks but if the supply of workers is there, then I say as a taxpayer keep it at $11. You are right that the state operates on a break even basis which is a difficult situation but the expenses are so out of control things need to be reigned in.

Lastly, my wife is in a teachers union and on the state retirement system so I have a good understanding of both sides of the coin.
 
#28 ·
BigLou80;1071121 said:
How do you figure? Around here the DOT has plenty of work it can be doing with the equipment year round, plenty of hot top and other stuff to haul so the trucks will see action year round. The state also does not need to make a profit, and I believe ( but may be wrong) is exempt from fuel taxes as well as exempt from sales tax on all of its purchases

I always wonder the logic behind "saving money" by privatizing and that applies to a lot more then just snow plowing
It is alot cheaper to pay for a sub contractor then buy more equipment and hire more employees to run the equipment. If you hire 3 employees and have to pay there wages, insurance, vacation time, benefits you are in the millions right there for that one year. Or you can hire 3 trucks and just have to pay there wage and you saving a lot of money. So he is right that there bean counter is wrong...
 
#29 ·
Burkartsplow;1080610 said:
It is alot cheaper to pay for a sub contractor then buy more equipment and hire more employees to run the equipment. If you hire 3 employees and have to pay there wages, insurance, vacation time, benefits you are in the millions right there for that one year. Or you can hire 3 trucks and just have to pay there wage and you saving a lot of money. So he is right that there bean counter is wrong...
I think your missing my point.

1) what subcontractor works for wages ? there are numerous threads on this very site about working for " wages"

2) in the case of most state sub contractors for massdot their boss has to ( or at least should) pay all of the above listed ( by you) costs plus liability insurance and turn a profit. In the case of summer time work such as paving all persons on the job must be paid "prevailing"/union wage

3) after paying for snow plowing contractors, we need to pay for sub contractors to haul the salt to the states salt shed, we hire another sub contractor to pile the salt with his loader, the construction of the salt shed went out to bid. In the summer we hire subcontractors to pave the highway its not uncommon for them to hire ( sub contractors) 30-40 dump trucks every day to haul hot top. We subcontract the removal of anything that can't be mowed. All of these sub contractors must comply with #2 above

4) the only thing worse the a gov't employee is a sub contractor who does all of his work for the gov't. Really whats the difference? I know of plenty of guys who do nothing but plow for the state its 100% of their snow removal business. Several of those guys spend the summer subcontracting paving/hauling work from the state

The real issue is lack of accountability for state employees and above market rate wages and benefits for below average performance. Privatizing is not a good solution. It almost always results in higher cost and lower performance. We fought WW2 with our own troops, the only thing sub contracted was manufacturing of goods. Look at how much money has been saved with KBR, Blackwater,Haliburton and other subcontractors fighting this war for us. Lets talk about high quality sub contracted base construction and electrocuted soldiers.
 
#30 ·
02powerstroke;1073680 said:
So back on topic are 3/4 tons out ? no matter what?
You can still plow for towns with a 3/4 ton truck and smaller than a 9' plow.
 
#32 ·
Last I heard they did require $1 mil insurance- at least 2 seasons ago they did when they had the big walk out and were scrambling for trucks mid season because of it...

On the rates sheet they have a code under Misc - 10000 is 10K-10,999 GVW with 9 'PRP, and AWD.
So, an F350SD would be fine, but they did away with 3/4 ton trucks several years ago - no need with all the 1 ton pickups that were coming out... and to be honest, I see WAAAY to many FSD trucks pushing wet state roads around here anyway where half the number of larger trucks would make better work of the job.
 
#34 ·
mass dot will not have a black and wet policy this year. don't let your loved ones out when its snowing.I was told today things are going to be different.If you don't have a wing truck you prob .wont get called till large storms.They are cutting 30% of the trucks. Then as i just finished adding a new closed computer iI hear they are trying to take back all combo spreaders. makes me feel good i just spent 7,500. some combo's just spent over 20 k in upgrades, wings,computers,tanks . and to get dropped in 2 years. WTF
 
#35 ·
I was told that anyone without dual wheels and atleast a 9' blade is kicked out to the curb, and also last year I put my name on the waiting list for district 5 and the min ins coverage was $300k auto and nothing about Gen Liability. Funny thing is last seaon i was number 661 on the list!! Shows how many people want to work for the state. Also heard the base pay is now up to $89/hr for a 1 ton. Id give anything to be on the state as the last 3 years when i was waiting for snow to start sticking to the pavement not making a penny I saw 3 of my friends sitting in a parking lot snoozing on the time clock. WTF, Oh yeah and there was no accumulation for about 3 hrs. I dont get it
 
#36 ·
two years ago mass.dot did away with the 100-300 ins.about 5 years ago mass dot started paying for wings all the time weather we used them or not. trucks sitting around is a thing of the past.mass dot is going to be using 4 to 5 times salt Less this year with the new system.
With all the trucks having wings 3/4 of trucks wont even get called. on a reg 4 inch storm we used to have 3 groups of trucks of 9 .(27) trucks. This year they are going to be using 6 trucks with wings .
 
#37 ·
john mc;1094416 said:
mass dot will not have a black and wet policy this year. don't let your loved ones out when its snowing.I was told today things are going to be different.If you don't have a wing truck you prob .wont get called till large storms.They are cutting 30% of the trucks. Then as i just finished adding a new closed computer iI hear they are trying to take back all combo spreaders. makes me feel good i just spent 7,500. some combo's just spent over 20 k in upgrades, wings,computers,tanks . and to get dropped in 2 years. WTF
Its about time the stopped spending millions and millions on wet pavement. people need to learn to stay the f@#k home during a snow storm. Its nonsense when I can see more sparks coming off a plow then I do snow
 
#38 ·
john mc;1094416 said:
mass dot will not have a black and wet policy this year. don't let your loved ones out when its snowing.I was told today things are going to be different.If you don't have a wing truck you prob .wont get called till large storms.They are cutting 30% of the trucks. Then as i just finished adding a new closed computer iI hear they are trying to take back all combo spreaders. makes me feel good i just spent 7,500. some combo's just spent over 20 k in upgrades, wings,computers,tanks . and to get dropped in 2 years. WTF
John,

When we went for our MADOT inspections on Thursday the guy who oversees 7 depots in our area said that they cut back anywhere from 45-54% on the total number of hired trucks in our area. Some didn't come back on their own, some just weren't asked to come back. They are judging everything based on past performance of the truck(s) and how well people interact with others. Sounds like there will be fewer trucks this year, they will work more when they work, but who knows.......it sounds like it's all going to be a popularity contest.

It should be interesting this year to say the least. :popcorn:
 
#41 ·
plowtime1;1096974 said:
Big Dog,
If you cant perform or "get along", I get it because who essentially is paying you; the state.
I might also add: It also depends on how many hands can you shake just as much as these fake politians! LOL
:dizzy: :confused:
 
#42 ·
Interesting article, must have missed that. Last year my city went along with the state in late plowing, storm management, and not going wet pavement... really annoyed and screwed up my customers who were expecting to be able to get out and go to work at 6am but found while I had plowed their driveway the roads had not been touched in some cases - and none touched at all before 5:30 am. Resulting in doubling my and most other plowers work by making us chase the street plows.

It's about time the state got their act together and figured out how to better manage the snow season- if any of us used their practices we'd have gone bankrupt in the first season... 9 trucks in a group when 2 properly equipped trucks (wing plows and front blades) or 3 would suffice (on some roads and on highways 6 trucks would be more than enough)... trucks on the clock at full wage doing nothing...
typical wasteful spending.
 
#44 ·
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