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Design Flaw in Plow

Discussion in 'Truck & Equipment Repair' started by FEFMedia, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. FEFMedia

    FEFMedia Senior Member
    Messages: 212

    So while going over the plow I noticed something that could be a issue with salt getting in between and rusting out the blade.

    As you see in the pictures between the white lines is a gap. Sure you see some welds in spots but there is still a huge gap. I can see salt getting in there and sitting. Just eating the blade.

    Blade_design_flaw.jpg
     
  2. jb1390

    jb1390 Senior Member
    Messages: 710

    Clean it out

    At least with a gap, you can get in there with a hose and rinse it off. It is a very good idea to clean the truck off (after every storm if you can), to help it last. No matter what, salt will find somewhere to sit. I have a hot water line going to my driveway hose hookup, so I can choose between hot and cold water (or a mix) to clean my equipment.
     
  3. affekonig

    affekonig Senior Member
    Messages: 909

    Salt's going to get all over and into everything on any truck or blade. I wouldn't be too concerned about that spot in particular.
     
  4. Camden

    Camden PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,598

    Not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious but a quick spray down after each event helps remove any salt in those areas.
     
  5. FEFMedia

    FEFMedia Senior Member
    Messages: 212

    Yeah the Plow is in my garage right now I plan to take it off each time I am not using it. I planned to stop by the car wash on my way home to hit it with the sprayer and then put it away in the heated garage when I am finished. Just noticed that huge gap and thought it should be caulked or something.. hahaha

    Funny part is.. you never worry about this stuff when you plowed for someone else and used there trucks.. but when it comes down to your own stuff.. well no one wants unexpected bills thats for sure
     
  6. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,852

    I'll always wonder why they don't do continuous welds. Most if not all muni blades are continually welded on ribs and supports. If you look at the ribs, those have a gap as well, I can see it on that pic.
     
  7. jb1390

    jb1390 Senior Member
    Messages: 710

    Continuous welds are a LOT more expensive, in shielding gas, electricity, time the welder is in use, replacement cost of the welder that is used more, labor, etc etc etc. And it doesn't make it much stronger-especially when most of the parts are loaded in compression.
     
  8. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,852

    Makes it a whole lot stronger when rust doesn't work its way in between the ribs and moldboard or tube and the moldboard.

    This is just an example of a bean counter getting involved in an aspect of production that they don't know squat about.

    But hey, they can sell more plows this way. Good ole planned obsolescence.
     
  9. jb1390

    jb1390 Senior Member
    Messages: 710

    True, when things don't rust, they are stronger (aka stainless)

    No plow manufacturer puts continuous welds on their stuff, at least for pickups. how many MAINTAINED plows do you know that have broke in half in a 10 year period?
     
  10. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    Corrosion will happen much faster if those two pieces touched. The gap allows the air to move though there to dry, and fluid film to flow in for protection. As for continuous welds they are counter productive. excess weld material does not add to strength, adds weight and can lead to warping and other quality control problems. In today's lighter highly engineered welded structures excess weld can prohibit flexing that is a designed function of the structure. Better the willow then the oak.
     
  11. Nascar24

    Nascar24 Senior Member
    Messages: 645

    Hi

    I don't understand why they just don't use a hybird boding proces along with welding. The hybird process utilizes a two part bonding adhesive which has 40,000lb psi tensile strength and allows for welding current to pass through in welding areas. The bonding adhesive also acts as a seam sealer, keeps trapped air and moisture out.

    Most automanufacturers have gone to this process, thats what gives you that solid feeling and no rattles in todays vehicles.
     
  12. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    I think they are willing to use any new techniques allowed by existing manufacturing equipment, that will decrease weight or cost. However I doubt they will spend money to produce a longer lasting unit. They have to have a certain amount of product obsolescence built in or they would be destroying their market.
     
  13. Jerre Heyer

    Jerre Heyer Senior Member
    Messages: 948



    HMM one of them did.

    In agreeing and disagreeing with Basher. Full welding does take flex out of many of the designs but when done designed and done properly it actually improves the flex of the plow and can reduce mfg cost and matl use.

    J
     
  14. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992


    While a continuous 1/4 inch fillet is as strong and cheaper (when using robotic mig welding) then 1/2 intermittent welds that example is only relevant when multiple passes are required to meet design requirements. Most welded structure design experts promote the less is more school of thought, particularly in light welded structures like snowplow blades. Once you downsize the fillet as far as possible and still have more joint strength then required the next step is intermittent welds particularly when there are not extreme loads placed on the parent metal.
    So while you can make a case for continuous welds improving costs and flex in some welded structures it does not necessary pertain to Snowplow moldboard design in the area in question. Full welds and closed structures are much better at controlling torsional loads but that is not a design requirement of the structure we are discussing, Blodgett has written some excellent articles on choosing intermittent fillet welds as opposed to continuous welds.
     
  15. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,852

    This is where you start losing the argument, my friend.

    No one should be telling us what is best when they don't get out of their office and never been plowing snow.

    My hunch is you're referring to Finite Element Analysis or something along those lines. Unfortunately, in the real world of plowing, we are not living in a finite world.
     
  16. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992


    Unfortunately we do. The manufacturers are more concerned with a profit then the wants or needs of plowers. They will design everything to the limits of performance. However; if we look at the original post and the poster's complaint less IS better. Look at where rust occurs, it starts where two pieces of material come together forming a moisture trap, in this situation the gaps and intermittent welds will promote longevity without sacrificing strengths. It is not like the skin on a moldboard has any real structural function short of acting like an infinite number of chords against diagonal stress. If it did poly blades would fall apart. full welds are required whereever there are torsional loads but for attaching skins:nono:
     
  17. Jerre Heyer

    Jerre Heyer Senior Member
    Messages: 948

    AHH So that's why I have to explain to people that MOST mfg's poly plows weight more than there steel blades. They didn't need to add structural strength by adding more material.

    IF your argument were true then all plow's would follow the snoway design with drop in mold boards.

    IF your argument were true then there would be no torsional load at the bottom of the snow plow.
     
  18. RichG53

    RichG53 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,135

    Clean it up good and spray some oil or lithium grease into the seam it will help protect it...
     
  19. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    The reasoning behind that statement you need to explain:confused:
     
  20. Ketch

    Ketch Member
    Messages: 48


    What? No comprende. Have a beer, try again. :drinkup: