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de icing brandnew concrete

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Scottslco, Dec 10, 2013.

  1. Scottslco

    Scottslco Junior Member
    from Fremont
    Messages: 9

    I have new concrete that has to be de iced , what is the safest things to use?
     
  2. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    If your talking a parking lot then regular rock salt is about the only way to go otherwise its going to be very expensive to buy the concrete "safer" type salt in bags. We use Hero-Melt and no issues so far. Its also the amount you use each time, even the "safer" stuff could damage things if put on too heavy all the time. But if your just talking for sidewalks check out Hero-Melt, Enviromelt....there's a bunch of different brands. We use those two brands, just for sidewalks, everything else is just plain bulk rock salt.
     
  3. Scottslco

    Scottslco Junior Member
    from Fremont
    Messages: 9

    I do a bunch of McDonalds and they just rebuilt one and they have all new concrete curbs and walks, that's what im looking to take care of is just the walks. Thanks for the info I will look into it.
     
  4. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    The main sidewalk salt we use is called ROBO-Melt not Hero Melt. I dont know where I came up with that name,lol
     
  5. ultimatelawns

    ultimatelawns Member
    Messages: 52

    liquid magnesium chloride
     
  6. framer1901

    framer1901 Senior Member
    Messages: 813

    Robo melt, AKA Superman Salt will kill sidewalks when you put too much down also - look at my houses front sidewalk and ask my wife what happened.
     
  7. SnowGuy73

    SnowGuy73 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 24,867

    Strait salt. You'll be fine.
     
  8. liquidsnowmelt

    liquidsnowmelt Junior Member
    Messages: 21

    Hi,
    I am in the NJ area. I sell a product called Liquid Snow Melt which is a plant-based, chloride-free,eco-friendly, anti-icing/deicing liquid. It will prevent damage being done to your concrete, pavers, roads, bridges, decks, plants, animals, etc. Diluting it with water is possible up to 75% and is effective at 19F and also makes it cost effective. Salt and Brine stop working at low temperatures where ours does not. Contact me for more information at Gpicarello@liquidsnowmeltllc.com

    Our website for the MSDS is www.LiquidSnowMeltLLC.com
     
  9. liquidsnowmelt

    liquidsnowmelt Junior Member
    Messages: 21

    Hi,
    I am in the NJ area. I sell a product called Liquid Snow Melt which is a plant-based, chloride-free,eco-friendly, anti-icing/deicing liquid. It will prevent damage being done to your concrete, pavers, roads, bridges, decks, plants, animals, etc. Diluting it with water is possible up to 75% and is effective at 19F and also makes it cost effective. Salt and Brine stop working at low temperatures where ours does not. Contact me for more information at Gpicarello@liquidsnowmeltllc.com

    Our website for the MSDS is www.LiquidSnowMeltLLC.com
     
  10. deicepro

    deicepro PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,124

    Use liquid and kitty litter....

    You don't want the top to pop off...
     
  11. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,571

    Calcium chloride.
    Then it depends if the concrete was done right when poured


    Concrete – Effects of Deicers

    The two most recognized organizations pertaining to the working technical knowledge of concrete are The American Concrete Institute (ACI) and the Portland Cement Association (PCA). Practicing civil engineers and those in the construction industry belong to these organizations and rely on their research findings for the latest information on concrete.

    Both of these organizations have published their research findings on deicers and their effect on concrete, and they both agree that sodium and calcium chloride when used as a deicer will not harm concrete when it is properly made, placed, and cured according to their recommendations. The ACI gives their specific recommendations in ACI 201.2R-01, and the PCA in their RD124 Bulletin.

    The ACI Guide to Durable Concrete shows the attack rates of commonly used chemicals on concrete. The part of the table that pertains to the use of deicers on concrete is shown below. It is from the ACI 201.2R-01 Guide to Durable Concrete, reported by committee 201, Copyright 2001.
    Table 2.1 Rates of attack for common deicers on concrete
    Deicer------ Rate of Attack on Concrete
    Sodium Chloride------ Negligible
    Calcium Chloride------ Negligible
    Magnesium Chloride--- Slow
    Ammonuim Sulfate---- Moderate

    Table 2.1 shows sodium and calcium chloride have a negligible chemical rate of attack on concrete. Magnesium chloride has a slow rate of attack and ammonium sulfate (a fertilizer) has moderate rate of attack.

    Magnesium chloride often said to be “safe on concrete”. However, there is plenty of research evidence showing magnesium chloride (MgCl2) is harmful to concrete as referenced below:
    Magnesium Chloride as a Road Deicer: A Critical Review
    Peter G. Snow, FACI
    Burns Concrete, Inc.
    Idaho Falls, Idaho

    American Concrete Institute Tech Paper 105-M70
    Effects of Deicers on Concrete Deterioration
    ACI Materials Journal, V. 105, No. 6, November-December 2008

    The Role of Magnesium in Concrete Deterioration
    Iowa DOT HR-355, Final Report
    The Iowa Highway Research Board
    Department of Geological and Atmospheric Sciences, Iowa State University

    Effects of Various Deicing Chemicals on Pavement Concrete Deterioration
    Mid-Continent Transportation Symposium
    Hyomin Lee, Robert D. Cody, Anita M. Cody, and Paul G. Spry
    Department of Geological and Atmospheric Sciences, Iowa State University.

    http://www.icemeltnow.com/ConcreteInfo.aspx
     
  12. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,571

    .......n/a
     
  13. kg26

    kg26 Senior Member
    Messages: 300

    calcium chloride
     
  14. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,868

    Fremont where?

    Regular salt, if they spall, someone did a crappy job of ordering, batching and installing.

    Mag and calcium are overkill for most of the country, except the last couple weeks.
     
  15. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,571

    yea, Mag was my go to deicer, now I use Cal.
    for those weeks the temp never gets above zero.
    It's nice to see so many states enjoy this refreshing weather with us.

    The only time I have bought any salt is to help cool off my wort.;)



     
  16. Two B's

    Two B's Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    Everytime one of our accounts has had new concrete poured they've had us put down chicken grit down. Made by New Ulm Quartzite Quarries in MN. Second year its back to salt. Although we stick to high maintenance commercial sidewalks only.
     
  17. White Gardens

    White Gardens 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,665

    This post is full of BS......


    No matter what product you put down, there are factors involved...

    One...

    If the floated surface of the concrete was done correctly. If not done right, there lies the problem.

    Two....

    And Ice melt control liquifies the ice and snow. It then seeps into any cracks or imperfections. (see One....). When the treatment in the liquid dilutes to a certain point, then the liquid freezes, then causing damage to the pavement.

    So, what I'm saying is, it doesn't matter what product you use. Once the dilution happens either due to natural melt, rain, or just general use, then it will freeze. Then causing problems.

    It's simple dilution and gravity factors. If anyone tells you otherwise, they've never actually done an research into their product.



    .......
     
  18. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,868

    Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
     
  19. arathol

    arathol Member
    from ct
    Messages: 30

    This, mostly. Freeze/thaw cycles are what cracks and spalls the concrete.

    However, there are other things to consider. Magnesium chloride, calcium chloride and sodium chloride are probably the most widely used de-icing agents. Of the three, sodium chloride has been proven to be the least damaging. Mag is the worst longterm and really tears up concrete. CaCl2 seems to have the most short term effects. Sodium chloride exposure does not seem to have huge effects on concrete, but since it will retain moisture the number of freeze/thaw cycles will increase in any given time. Increasing the number of freeze/thaw cycles increases the damage potential. All chlorides will do this, some more than others.
     
  20. harddock

    harddock Member
    from mass
    Messages: 67

    I've eaten some concrete at home with stuff from the supermarket so now I only use Speedy Dri on my sidewalks. While it isn't a melter, it offers good traction, it is clean, and does no harm. I don't know if this would be suitable for commercial use but it is another suggestion.