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Cracked E60 top plate

Discussion in 'Meyer / Diamond Products Discussion' started by IowaBoy, Dec 12, 2010.

  1. IowaBoy

    IowaBoy Junior Member
    Messages: 12

    I went to put my plow on my truck yesterday and when I ran the pump up, it cracked to the top plate. I hadn't flushed the fluid from last year which I'm now regretting as I have a feeling there may have been some water in the fluid.

    I'm getting ready to track down a replacement top plate. Should I go ahead and get a seal kit since I'm going to have it partially apart? This pump has not leaked and hasn't given me any problems over the last 3 years other than needing new A and B solenoids.

    I've read in some of the threads that it might be a good idea to put a pressure gauge on the pump to be sure the pressure isn't too high. Can I pick up a guage at Northern Tool and Equipment or someplace like that? Where do I hook it up to verify the pressure? Thanks in advance!

    It just figures we got slammed last night with a nasty snow storm. Next year, I'm getting everything ready to go before the snow flies!
     
  2. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    While you have the top cap off is a perfect opportunity to clean the sludge out of the sump and replace all seals in the ram housing.

    Blown top caps are the direct result of too much pump pressure and/or no positive stops on the A-frame or a correctly adjusted chain to allow the stops to be effective if they're on there.

    Get a gauge on it asap after reassembly. Grainger, Northern Tool or most any hydraulic shop will have the needed parts to build one. Then simply tee the gauge into the passenger side angle hose and angle to the left, briefly hold and read the gauge while the pump is dead headed against the relief and make the needed PSI adjustment from there. Set the pump relief no higher than 2200 PSI if it's a small bore E60, or not over 2000 PSI if it's a large bore model.
     
  3. IowaBoy

    IowaBoy Junior Member
    Messages: 12

    B&B - Thanks for the info. I have found a used E60 pump that I'm going to pick up tonight. I picked up a 5,000 psi hydraulic gauge yesterday at Northern and need to fab up a T to put inline on the power angle to check the pressure (Northern didn't have a T fitting so it looks like I need to stop by a hydraulic shop to get one). Once I check the pressure, where, or "how" do I make adjustments? I've searched this site as well as via Google and I find lots of references on needing to check the pressure but nothing about how to actually make the adjustments. I just want to be sure I don't screw up this second pump. As you know, they don't give these things away!!!

    My long term plan is to fix my old pump so I'll have a spare in case of emergency. I only plow for myself (live on an acreage) and my church. It just figured that after I broke the pump on my truck and I went to my back-up (my tractor with a loader) that I broke the loader...some days I can't win for loosing!!

    Thanks in advance for the assistance.
     
  4. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Making the adjustment is rather simple once you have the gauge and know how to do so. The adjusting screw is located under the large nut just to the passenger side of the ram/tank assembly. Using a one inch socket remove the said large cap nut (keep track of the o-ring the seals it) and you'll see a large threaded screw under it that accepts a flat blade screwdriver. This is the pump relief adjusting screw. Simply turn it clockwise to increase pressure and counterclockwise to decrease it, making about a 1/4 turn adjustment at a time until you reach the correct pressure. Once it's set, reinstall and snug the cap nut (make sure it's O-ring is there) and recheck the pressure once more as tightening the cap nut can cause the relief screw to turn slightly therefore changing your setting. Simple as that.
     
  5. bradt

    bradt Junior Member
    from NW MN
    Messages: 23

    B&B, question for you since you brought this up.

    Meyer says to give the plow three links of slack - check.

    You mentioned "positive stops" and I am now wondering about that. You may recall that I too blew a top cap last year and I am sure that it was because I had too much slack. But, this year, I went the recommended three links and had lifted the plow all the way up and noticed that the A-frame does not contact the stops on the lift hoop by about three inches. After some poking around on the internet, I have seen some guys weld on some extensions to make the positive stop and so I tried it too. What I found out then, was that my stacking suffers greatly and a lot of force gets placed onto the A-frame when I do stack. So, off they came and I am back to being very cognizant of watching the lift arm to avoid last year's troubles.

    What is a good positive stop for this? Running a classic mount with an E60 and a ST-P 7.5 on a Chev 1500HD.
    Thanks!
     
  6. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    It's a compromise between keeping the top cap alive or having no stops therefore good stacking capability. And with all the variations in truck heights, mounting holes used and such there's no exact answer or specification. It's really due to inadequacies in the Meyer design really. Even they basically stated "add to, or do whatever is necessary with the stops so the A-frame will have contact before the ram fully extends." If it reduces stacking ability so be it...which of course it does. So for those that want a stacking monster the only solution is to back the pump pressure down to prolong the life of the top cap and check it's condition after a season of hard stacking.

    If they would have made the top caps more robust or at least correctly standardized the geometry it wouldn't even be an issue.
     
  7. IowaBoy

    IowaBoy Junior Member
    Messages: 12

    I picked up a used E60 pump on Tuesday for $500. Guaranteed to work...yeah right. Swapped everything out, flushed the fluid in pump and PA rams and the main lift ram bleeds off within a minute of being fully raised and I can't get the power angle to work. It is almost like the valve that should let the retracting ram bleed off fluid isn't working. The pump is trying to move the PA but it gets to a point where the back pressure is so high, it can't move. I fought with it for 2 hours last night and finally gave up - I was too damn mad to deal with it anymore!

    Today I found a local Meyers dealer that has the top plate and seals in stock that I need to fix my original pump. I'm picking those up today and will get my old pump up and running (at least I know everything on it works!). Then I'll turn my attention to the extra pump I have so I have a spare ready in case I need it.

    One last question. When I put the PSI guage on the line to test the pressue, can I connect it to just one of the ports and trigger the pump or must both hydraulic lines be connected with the guage "T'd in-line"? I don't want to screw anything up on my original pump once I get the new packing and top plate installed!
     
  8. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Yes you can just connect the gauge directly and dead head it, doesn't have to be tee'd in if there's no hoses or cylinders.
     
  9. IowaBoy

    IowaBoy Junior Member
    Messages: 12

    Regarding the "new to me" pump that won't power angle (or that more correctly stated, it won't let the retracting ram bleed off fluid) - this appears to be an issue with the cross-over valve. I've heard these can be touchy to tear into. Am I going to be in over my head with trying to deal with that or is this something I can try to fix too? I'm pretty mechanical but I also know my limits!

    I'm planning to tear into my old pump this weekend and hopefully have it up and running by Sunday with a new seal kit and top plate. Then my attention turns to the "new to me" pump which will be my spare...
     
  10. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    The multi piece cross overs can be a can of worms if you're not familiar with them as they're made up of thirteen individual components and it only requires one incorrectly placed piece or incorrect order of assembly to cause you more issues. Plus if you do not have a pressure gauge to properly set the CO relief afterward you're just shooting in the dark. It's not something I will recommend without the proper tools and know how..

    However you can check the pilot piston and it's components for any rust or missing pieces as it's made up of only three pieces and any problems with it will cause the issue you're describing.
     
  11. maverjohn

    maverjohn Senior Member
    Messages: 902

    Blowing the top is commen on e60's I took B&B advice he gave to others and reajusted my A frame and chain
    and never blow a top again, You don't need to stack snow the hightest to be a good plow guy
     
  12. dlcs

    dlcs 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,149

    b&b,


    Is the top cap on the E-58H built heavier than the E-60 top cap? I've never heard of anyone breaking the top cap on the newer meyer power units. Did Meyer make them heavier to accomodate higher pump pressures?
     
  13. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    No, they're not. The biggest factor that reduced cap breakage as time progressed was Meyer discontinuing the small bore E60's not too long before discontinuing the 60 series altogether. It's the small 1 1/4" bore (less volume) and high pump pressure of the small bore 60's that creates a great deal of inertia as the ram is extended that breaks the caps. You're basically pounding on the underside of the top cap with the ram piston each time it's run all the way up (with no external stops) and with the small cylinder volume of the 1 1/4" bore and plenty of pump pressure it doesn't take long for it to bust it's way through the top. Therefore, once they increased the cylinder bore size to 1 3/4" and reduced the pump pressure (to 2000 PSI) accordingly on the latest E60's and those same specs were continued on in all the pump series that followed the ram lost some of that lift speed and inertia, thus causing less top cap forces so it became much less of an issue. But of course there's still a zillion small bore E60's out there so top caps are still a popular seller.

    This is why I recommend reducing the pump relief setting from the original Meyer recommended 2500 PSI down to 2200 PSI max on the small bores. Just dropping the relief by 300 PSI can more than double the life expectancy of the top cap on a plow with no external stops.
     
  14. IowaBoy

    IowaBoy Junior Member
    Messages: 12

    B&B - Thanks for the additional info. I tore my original pump apart yesterday, cleaned everything, installed a master seal kit and new top plate and got it back on the truck last night (and I made sure the stops are being engaged!). Everything is working as it should except the lift ram is very slowly bleeding off which it never did before. I will live with it for now but I will probably have to try and figure out what is going on.

    Next up, tearing into the extra pump...
     
  15. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Probably didn't get the ram base o-ring or packing cup in quite right or forgot the check ball under the B valve, so when you're ready to take a look at those first. Good luck.
     
  16. IowaBoy

    IowaBoy Junior Member
    Messages: 12

    Is there a trick to doing either of these? O ring on base - I'm assuming you put it on the ram base then work the ram base into the pump housing. What about the cup on the ram? I know I fought that and ended up loosely assembling the ram in the ram housing then tightened up the nut on the cup with the ram inside the ram base.
     
  17. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    With those details it's clear where you went wrong. You need to place the ram base o-ring in the groove in the sump base first, and then set the ram/cylinder assembly down onto it. The way you did it you likely cut the o-ring. And a cut ram base o-ring equals leak down.

    Same way with the ram cup, it's probably not in it's groove in the guide ring. Next time fully assemble the ram, brass guide ring, o-ring, cup, and lock nut as an assembly, lube the bore and cup very well, then start the cylinder down over the ram assembly from the top. Then hold the cylinder and gently tap the ram base against the workbench until the cup is fully inside the cylinder.