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Cracked concrete driveway

Discussion in 'Residential Snow Removal' started by Fourbycb, Dec 19, 2010.

  1. Fourbycb

    Fourbycb Senior Member
    Messages: 578

    I have a home owner who poured a new concrete driveway this summer and after the last snowfall now the owner has called me out saying I cracked the concrete. The area of concern is right in front of the garage door on 2 6x6 panels, Now there is a 2" wide buy 14" long scrap mark on the concrete and the cracks go thur that to the outside edges I told him the concrete had a crown (high spot) and I shouldnt be held accountable for a poor concrete pour job if in fact it was my blade dropping down that caused the crack to happen
    Whats everyone think
     
  2. jomama45

    jomama45 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,172

    Unless you're plowing it with an 80,000# Oshkosh, it's not your fault. Your gut feeling is certainly right on this one. :salute:
     
  3. doo-man

    doo-man Senior Member
    Messages: 387

    I 2nd that, your plow isn't dropping all its +/- 800lbs of force in one area its spread over the 7'6" or whatever width your running.

    I would suspect he either put some salt down or the original contractor didn't know squat about pouring a drive !!!
     
  4. Fourbycb

    Fourbycb Senior Member
    Messages: 578

    There has been No Salt on it and my Danile rear pull plow was what I used so 90" was spread out The cracks are spread out over the 12ft width I just really feel like it was not my plow that did the cracks we did have sub zero temps for 3 days straight then all a sudden the cracks appeared and I am being blamed for the damage Its not like dropping a 8 ft blade 16 " on cold concrete
     
  5. R.G.PEEL

    R.G.PEEL 2000 Club Member
    from Toronto
    Messages: 2,160

    I do a lot of concrete flatwork, If this driveway is cracking and there is a high spot, it was likely not from poor workmanship with the concrete. Even an idiot can get concrete relatively flat. What has likely happened is the ground underneath the concrete froze and heaved in a non-uniform manner which stressed and broke the concrete. This is due to an improper base and is Not your fault. I have a much heavier plow than the one you are describing and I would gladly raise and drop it all day on any of my pours.

    Tell him thats what he gets for pouring concrete on a pour base. I'm willing to bet there is only a couple inches of stone under the concrete and nothing else. If it continues to heave and crack (it will) offer to re-do it, charge lots to remove and dig a good deep base of granular material in there, reinforce the hell out of it and use a strong mixture like 32C2.
     
  6. kashman

    kashman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,070

    take a core sample have it tested it all starts with a solid base
     
  7. jomama45

    jomama45 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,172

    So there's a few cracks?

    Are there any control joints, either sawn or "tooled" in?
     
  8. kashman

    kashman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,070

    i would hope so
     
  9. Fourbycb

    Fourbycb Senior Member
    Messages: 578

    There are sawn cuts the panels are 6'x6' panels with exp joint from old to new concrete the 2 panels closest to the garage are the effected panels the cracks seem to start in the center of each panel and spread to the outside edges
     
  10. R.G.PEEL

    R.G.PEEL 2000 Club Member
    from Toronto
    Messages: 2,160

    Don't lose sleep over it buddy there's no way its your fault.
     
  11. Fourbycb

    Fourbycb Senior Member
    Messages: 578

    You will see the Drag mark my Pull Plow made

    Driveway2.jpg

    Driveway crack.jpg
     
  12. kashman

    kashman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,070

    i can tell from the pics thats **** cret
     
  13. Turf Commando

    Turf Commando Senior Member
    Messages: 567

    Tell the homeowner to get some concrete caulk ...
     
  14. jomama45

    jomama45 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,172

    First, that concrete was obviously cracked before you scratched it.

    Second, there's way too much sand exposed already for a "new" driveway.

    As said above, it's clear to see to anyone who's profession is concrete that the driveway was bound to fail before you touched it. A good dose of just about about any de-icer will probably make that drive look like the surface of the moon..................
     
  15. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985

    This is My Opinion....Those cracks are caused by shrinkage.....The Concrete cured to fast and thats when you get shrinkage cracks.....Most likely that slab was poured on a Pretty hot day.....Just My Opinion.....In no way are those cracks your fault....
     
  16. FordFisherman

    FordFisherman PlowSite.com Addict
    from 06611
    Messages: 1,593

    Try having him open the garage door and see if the floor is cracked. Chances are it is. Same with the basement. 2 things I can tell you about concrete; its grey and it cracks. Not your fault, its the nature of the product.
     
  17. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985

     
  18. Mabepossibly

    Mabepossibly Senior Member
    Messages: 107

    I also deal with concrete all day long (sales of PCC pavement materials, ACI and ICRI member).

    One, two or three things happened here.

    1) Slab cured too fast. Concrete needs to be kept wet for a long while after it is poured. if it was poured and forgotten about it will dry too fast, shrink and crack. It will also not cure fully as it loses the water needed to cure. You will also get a lot of loose sand on top and the concrete will never match full strength...this explaines why your plow gouged the concrete so easily.

    2) Bad design. All concrete cracks. A proper design has properly spaced saw cuts and exp joints in it to allow the concrete to crack in the right spots. I cant see from those pictures, but the accepted standard is between 10'x10' and 15'x15'.

    3) Poor sub base prep. If the ground settles, the concrete cracks. If it is not compacted, the concrete cracks. If there is erosion, the concrete cracks.

    Bottom line is that even if the concrete cracked because your truck and plow were on it, its still not your problem. You didnt design the slab or the place it. If the slab failed from the weight of your equipment then it was not designed to meet its intended use.
     
  19. leolkfrm

    leolkfrm PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,414

    I'll bet the concretete is less than 4" under that spot
     
  20. Banksy

    Banksy PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,113

    All the driveways in my neighborhood are concrete, including mine. I don't do residential here, but if I were to be asked to plow them out ever ( maybe this weekend?) I plan to have a damage waiver forms ready. That means if there are any scrapes, chips, cracks, etc. I'm not going to be held liable. I may lightly back drag mine.

    Nobody plows driveways here, so $30-40 a pop and most would be easy straight pushes in. Cha-ching!