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Convince me

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by fej70, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. fej70

    fej70 Junior Member
    Messages: 21

    Last two years I have had to rent a skid steer to move snow piles for three of my accounts. Luckily the three accounts were all within driving distance and I was able to charge accordingly.
    I have added an additional two commercial lots to make four I have to drive to (over 20 miles from my base). They all want the lot cleared curb to curb, because of small lots. There is room to blow and stack piles.
    I only mow during the summer no construction or landscaping. Would it be worth it to invest in a skid steer, blower and bucket just for winter use?
     
  2. viper881

    viper881 Senior Member
    Messages: 458

    Probably not. Not if you wont use it during the summer, not NEW for sure! Now you could take your trailer and load the rented unit on there and do it that way. You wouldnt lose much money doing that if its only to move snow once in a while. If its moving it for ever storm thats a diff thing
     
  3. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    snow and parking lots

    Snow, skid, and blow.



    ========================================================================

    It would not be justified from a loss of working capital point of view for sure as you would lose the working capital you would have to spend on this machine that wil be needed for emergency repairs and replacement of any machinery beyond a reasonable cost of repair.

    In my opinion:

    Kubota 2660/ Curtis cab and Kubota 3 speed heater defroster
    dual rear remotes
    upgraded seat option-must have for work and commutes
    R4 tires loaded with windshield washer fluid
    front loader
    canopy
    rear work light
    cruise control
    high output alternator

    you could ad a cab roof mounted air conditioner later if desired

    Pronovost 620 snow blower
    rear mount/ three point hitch/ 540 rpm

    Clarences snow blower impeller kit- best 30 bucks you will ever spend

    fluid film spray for snow blower slicker than wd-40 or cooking spray to help keep things from plugging

    JC Whitney
    wireless back up camera from $79.00
    Suicide knob for tractor steering wheel


    less work and labor, no hydraulic feed third valve, to run auger and impeller
    the 540 rpm blower will be much less trouble as it has a high cutting hieght 28 inches and
    will remove snow faster with less time and effort

    With the 2660 you will be looking over and in front of the rear mounted blower while backing and casting snow and your line of sight will not be impeded as it would be with a skid mounted blower.

    The rear mounted blower is better than a front mounted blower as it will not get hung up as it has a higher ground clearance where a front mounted blower does not have a lot of ground clearance.


    Pronovost group 1 P620 snowblower
    62 inch cutting width, 28 inch cutting hieght
    semi industrial chute-extended.
    chute and spout can be ordered with dual hydraulics or manual operation
    easier with dual hydraulics with cab on tractor


    the 2660 can be used as another mower as well using a
    Caroni TLFSC1500 59 inch flail mower as a second or third mower which will offer a better cut with the finsh rotor as the full width of the mower cuts the grass at all times versus the shorter cutting edges on the belly mowers.


    you will not have to pick up the clippings as their will be very little to pick up and you can mow wet grass much easier with no plugging or scraping.:mechanic::waving::drinkup:
     
  4. fej70

    fej70 Junior Member
    Messages: 21

    Probably not. Not if you wont use it during the summer, not NEW for sure! Now you could take your trailer and load the rented unit on there and do it that way. You wouldnt lose much money doing that if its only to move snow once in a while. If its moving it for ever storm thats a diff thing

    =================================================================

    That is my dilema, looking at the lots, I may have to clean up after every snow fall, or at least every other. I can rent a skid for $125.00 an plus fuel costs. Cleaning up the lots I would say would take about 2 hours, but I would have to wait until the rental store opens or if the skid becomes available. Used for sure, have a quote from the Bobcat dealer. 01 S185 bucket and blower out the door for around 38000.

    Would a utility tractor be better in this situation? Are the rear mounted blowers better than a front mounted on a skid?

    This would be the only thing I have financed for the business.
     
  5. rob_cook2001

    rob_cook2001 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,181

    I do NOT think a compact tractor would be the way to. Stick with a skid. If stacking is all you want to do with it do you really need a blower?? You can stack pretty high with a bucket. And 38k for a S185 with a blower sounds pretty high, must be one nice blower.
    Robert
     
  6. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    A compact tractor MAY meet your needs. This is with a 41 hp.

    DSC05251.jpg
     
  7. fej70

    fej70 Junior Member
    Messages: 21

    How easy is that thing to trailer? How much HP on the rear PTO?

    The quote was wrong, 31800 for the skid and attatchments.
     
  8. MIDTOWNPC

    MIDTOWNPC PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,452

    Leon you must be a sales rep. You can spec out a machine like crazy.



    what about talking to someone who has a skid already? sub them or rent their machine for the season or hourly or per job. if its just clean up you really wont need a large machine cause you wont be plowing with it. more just the ability to stack and move ect. Your not really trying to clear a lot as fast as you can as the storm is over and its clean up. I wouldn't buy a machine for that. I bet you could get a great sub. Maybe even ask the dealer if they know anyone that is looking for some winter work. New machine is nice and it might have its write off benefits to you. I think if you wanted to expand and plow with the machine and do the cleanups then go for a purchase. Id get a multiyear deal before you pull the trigger on a new one.
     
  9. viper881

    viper881 Senior Member
    Messages: 458

    I dont care for the skids over a tractor. My OP. You have great staking ablity with a tractor and a rear PTO. I have a jd 3720 and it works great. I put a boss 8'2 vplow on the front and i can intrechage it with a push plow in a matter of min. The rear blowers work great on them to. But you get a sore neck looking back all the time and you have to be carful your frt bucket doesnt hit a car as you go backwards. Finding a sub would be the way to go. Or find someone with a skid that you could rent from for a winter.
     
  10. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    PTO - 34hp

    I haul it on a 18' dual axle car carrier. Easy? I guess so. Weight is approx 4000 pounds.
     
  11. fej70

    fej70 Junior Member
    Messages: 21

    Mick, is that a Massey? Not needing exact how much for that tractor?
     
  12. mansf123

    mansf123 Senior Member
    from mass
    Messages: 817

    One good thing about renting is if it breaks down the rental company will fix it. I would look into renting for the whole season. If you buy a skidsteer and you dont have use for it in the summer you will be paying it off and it will be just sitting there.
     
  13. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    snow removal

    No, I am not a sales rep.,

    I am just very familiar with the Pronovost families
    line of snow blowers.

    The thing is that a skid steer can get hung up and you
    need a truck or winch to get it unstuck due to the low
    ground clearance.

    The other things are:

    A hydraulic drive snow blower eats up a lot of fuel
    and time as it is limited in its speed to cast snow,
    as it is limited to the cutting hieght of the hydraulic
    blowers limited throat size and the snows condition
    as it relates to melt down and compaction from freeze
    thaw cycles.


    Tthe open auger design floods the impeller and impedes
    maximum casting distance if the forward speed is too fast.

    The use of a rear blower will simplify snow removal as the tractor
    has a wider field of view for the operator.

    If the snow is a foot deep and not melted its going to wiegh
    21 pounds plus per cubic foot.


    If a 60 inch blower is used and the rate of advance is 88 feet per minute
    which is 1 mile per hour the blower will cast forward 4.62 tons per minute
    until the tractor stops at the storage pile.



    A front loader will require clean up and more pushing and will eventually be
    stopped by the snow weight and dump out and push forward again taking time
    and making more work.



    Edit:

    the skid loaders with steel tracks arew worthles in snow as they have a very high ground pressure
    and even a little snow will stop it cold when trying to go through it with the bucket pushing or even when
    moving with it empty.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2010
  14. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    Mahindra 4110.

    $20,500 for tractor and bucket four years ago.
     
  15. plowatnight

    plowatnight Senior Member
    from Mn
    Messages: 305

    I'm w/ Leon, at least the idea of the tractor. If you run a mower in the summer, you'll be better at the tractor than the skid and the tractor is lighter to haul on slippery narrowed winter roads. I'll put my TC34 up against 2 34hp Skidloaders. It's hydro, heated soft cab. dual rear remotes qwick tatch loader boom w/ 7.5 trip blade and wings. The blade on the front is excellent for back dragging cuz I can pick up the front tires (for down pressure) and my neck doesn't get tired for having to look backwards all the time (rear pull plow) The 60" blower on back is great for Public walk and getting rid of piles. Tractors like these are available used and other than routine maint. , require very little fixing (in my experience,... I've had four diff. ones over the years. Deere, Case Kubota, New Holland) durable and long lasting.
     
  16. plowatnight

    plowatnight Senior Member
    from Mn
    Messages: 305

    I also think that if you're considering renting, Bobcat has tractors as well as skidloaders, I will say however that living in Minnesota, You NEED a cab. w/ heat. the cold just gets too biting and when you're numb, you'll wreck some machinery or yourself.
     
  17. Flipper

    Flipper PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,180

    I have both a tractor and skid steer that we use year round in our landscaping jobs. I prefer the tractor if I am just stacking. We usually use the skid with a blower for truck loading.

    Even though you just mow if you have the space you might want to pick up a used unit. Anything with a loader comes in handy for loading/unloading stuff, etc. You will be surprised how much you use it just around the shop etc.
     
  18. plowatnight

    plowatnight Senior Member
    from Mn
    Messages: 305

    Agree ! ! I use it at home for loading stuff and doing projects like a retaining wall or egress window, you'll make the nieghbors jealous! (I know, probably not a justifyable reason for most)
     
  19. gd8boltman

    gd8boltman Senior Member
    Messages: 326

    Rent a telehandler

    much better for placing, stacking snow than a skid loader.
     
  20. fej70

    fej70 Junior Member
    Messages: 21

    I could also use a tractor to expand the mowing. I have a couple of accounts that need lots mowed in the summer, but I dont have equipment big enough for it. Could also add an Aerator to the service.

    How big of tractor do you all have?

    Kubota, Deere, and Bobcat are the dealers that are within a reasonable distance for sevice and parts.


    2720 Deere, Kubota B3030, Bobcat CT230,

    They have good financing and warranty with all of them. Anyone one have a service/warranty issue with any of the brands?