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Contract Or Sub-contract

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by kcplowmata, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. kcplowmata

    kcplowmata Senior Member
    from kc
    Messages: 174

    Is it better to be the contractor or the sub? We have found here in the Kansas City market alot of guys sub-contract. I sub but i know what i get paid and it isnt bad. But if they can pay that then what are they getting for the work in whole. Just thought id ask. A couple of us in Kansas city are questioning which is better.payup
     
  2. murphyslaw

    murphyslaw Senior Member
    Messages: 443

    its a lot more work. I have my own contracts for many many years but decided I didnt want the added responsability about dealing with the customers and hashing things out and worring about getting new contracts or dealing with the clients(did i say that already) so now I just sub. that way I dont have to deal with everything, i just show up when there is snow and turn in my time sheet, and get paid. much better for me. to me the "cut" in pay was well worth it for not having all that extra stuff to deal with.
     
  3. kcplowmata

    kcplowmata Senior Member
    from kc
    Messages: 174

    Yea that is what i figured. Just be nice to get more money but then that means more headaches too. Plus they supply the salt and back up trucks in which i could never have the amount of patience you would need when john doe didnt show up and i had to call other resources and then he shows or if a customer got mad over nothing . Ive seen both happen alot being a manager (sub) for True North here in K.C thanks for the reply
     
  4. Midwest BuildIt Inc

    Midwest BuildIt Inc PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,280

    To be honest with ya, Ive been plowing snow in a truck since 94. ive plowed snow in just about everything there is to move snow with. I love doing it, and that is it, i was happy being an employee and now i just sub. Ive got a couple trucks that go out when it snows and thats it. I hate going after the work, billing and collecting. Its not that i cant, I have my own remodeling business. When it comes to snow i just like being the guy that comes out and kicks its a** and goes home.
     
  5. Duracutter

    Duracutter Senior Member
    from Canada
    Messages: 200

    Yeah, subbing has it's advantages, but one of them isn't making good money.
    We did sub once and after that winter years ago I told myself, hell no.

    Now, we make probably twice as much, we have all paid for bobcats, diesel pushers etc... and the money is worth the hassle.

    It depends how you set yourself up. We have an office manager, full time staff and tons of temps from employment agencies. I guess if you can take the stress you'll retire with a good cushion, but if you like being a sub and making way less and having way less in your savings account .... to each his own.

    Me, I need the $$ :D
     
  6. kcplowmata

    kcplowmata Senior Member
    from kc
    Messages: 174

    Yes i want more money.Plus i wanna grow.Seems like subbing i cant grow to fast.I hear you on the more money.
     
  7. Duracutter

    Duracutter Senior Member
    from Canada
    Messages: 200

    You hit the nail on the head. The guy you're subbing from is taking off the gravy.

    Of course you may need to sub for a while to learn the ropes because the really good paying snow contracts have to be found and it's not always easy to do so. Residential contracts are mostly a job unless you're running many trucks at the same time.

    It's hard to say how big you can get unless I knew how much snow you have in your area and how much you can invest into the biz. Only you know and are able to make that decision.

    :)
     
  8. kcplowmata

    kcplowmata Senior Member
    from kc
    Messages: 174

    Been in the biz for three years now have 4 spreaders on trucks and three plows on three of the spreader trucks and i manage for the company i sub for. We are in the kansas missouri market. Its ok here for snow but we salt like we are eating some homegrown tomoatoes. Salted 23 x last year with the trucks i have this year my salting will pay upwards of 60000 but thats alot of driving. Thanks for your input payup
     
  9. Jay brown

    Jay brown PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,783

    you salted 23X?? i live north of KC and we salted 10x on our "zero tollerence lots" and about 5 on the others.
     
  10. kcplowmata

    kcplowmata Senior Member
    from kc
    Messages: 174

    yes i was subbing for true north and they salt like crazy. now i am switching to sno men and i hope they are nuts about salt id like to push the 60 k mark for salting
     
  11. Jay brown

    Jay brown PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,783

    why would you want to be a contractor when you can sub and make $60k on just 4 trucks and never have to buy salt???? that's easy money because Kansas City only got 4-5 icy events so most of the time you were spreading on very light snow or just spreading for the hell of it........ you make $60k on 4 truck subbing and i barley make $14-$16k running 4-6 units contracting. i'd like to see some of your trucks thanks kc plow
     
  12. kcplowmata

    kcplowmata Senior Member
    from kc
    Messages: 174

    im in kansascity on the ks side . i cant believe you have that hard of time making that much. i bought the l9000 off here from procut landscaping.heck i will 1100 to spread 2 lotswith it and they will take 4 hours total and i get to stage my truck at lot 1. im not bragging by any means but if i make that imagine what they are getting. but with only 4 trucks and being a contractor we dont stad a chance alone.need alot of money for materials and subs.unless you got deeeeeep pockets.i am also a manager so i get to send my trucks out on extra work during or after the storm.give e a call if you want ill pm you im in ks
     
  13. ROSELAWN

    ROSELAWN Member
    Messages: 78

    I have 4 new Super Dutys with Blizzard 810's and stainless steel 8' spreaders and I do most of my work in Johnson County, KS. $ 60,000.......I'm gonna let all of my subs and contracts go and become a sub :dizzy:

    I know the whole True North staff and about 40 people that work for them, so I am not saying this uneducated. But if you take the average hourly rate for spreaders, your # of spreaders and the # of events we've had........ True North must take forever to finish routes.
     
  14. kcplowmata

    kcplowmata Senior Member
    from kc
    Messages: 174

    i make my money off salting extra lots being a manager .i get to route my trucks on extra work. plus have a couple side routes that pay well. im glad you know all of true north wow they have a real big staff cough cough .i know them all too and i am friends of most of the fammiles too but sorry to say true north does take for ever to do routes but they pay per salting soo i dont know where you get price per hour .glad to see my competition knows it all. better for me to grow while you all ready got it figured out. and i never said i made 60 k last year. i said my salting will be 60 k roughly this year. and you cant get big routes with 8 foot spreaders. so i bought the l9000 (8 ton all 4 of your trucks in one) off here from procut in new york. one contract will pay 1100 for about 5 hours work salting not bad. sorry to hear you dont make it must be a low baller.one of many guys trying to set the standard of pricing as the same for tree work in this city or we could let all the low ballers and illegals have it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2007