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considering liquids

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by mpgall26, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. mpgall26

    mpgall26 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    Toying with the idea of a liquid unit for 3500 flatbed. guessing weight may limit me to 300 gallon unit or so ?? Any input on cost vs 2yd sander in regard to materials would be useful. I'm curious about cost and supplies in massachusetts. I'm not sure I could sell it immediately to my current accounts, they are old school and like the sand.
    Seems like getting a tank filled somewhere may be an issue since I'm not gonna entertain storage of liquids right now.
    Thanks for any thoughts
     
  2. RLM

    RLM PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,270

    I have been working on getting setup for liquids for a while. Like you bulk liquid isn't avaiable here from a local supplier. So I'm pretty much working backwards I found a supplier, mainly for municiapalities about a half hour away I can p/u whatever quanities I want or he will deliver in 5000 gal loads. I found a 8000 gal tank on craigslist for $ 300, found a sprayer minus the boom & electric switch for boom valve for $ 800. So now I just need to get the boom & switch, and pick up maybe 1000 gallons to start with.
    We don't use sand here at all, granular salt is the
    Primary deicer
     
  3. RLM

    RLM PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,270

    I have been working on getting setup for liquids for a while. Like you bulk liquid isn't avaiable here from a local supplier. So I'm pretty much working backwards I found a supplier, mainly for municiapalities about a half hour away I can p/u whatever quanities I want or he will deliver in 5000 gal loads. I found a 8000 gal tank on craigslist for $ 300, found a sprayer minus the boom & electric switch for boom valve for $ 800. So now I just need to get the boom & switch, and pick up maybe 1000 gallons to start with.
    We don't use sand here at all, granular salt is the
    Primary deicer, with a few using treated salt. So this will be new to our market as well.
     
  4. szorno

    szorno Senior Member
    Messages: 308

    Good advice to find your supplier before you get too far. I am in the early stages of putting together a list of suppliers and the product they provide by state. I hope to have it pretty much done next month. Will post it on our web page when complete. PM me with your email address if you want a draft copy. Still adding some info gathered at SIMA. Check www.HighCountryIS.com in a couple weeks.
     
  5. mpgall26

    mpgall26 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    Kubota 8450 is clearly a leader in building the units but a little to advanced for my understanding. Anyone have a rough idea how much to set up a 1 ton with a good system. Single lane only will not suffice, I don't want to do 8 foot paths through the whole area.
     
  6. mpgall26

    mpgall26 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    I'm not even going to entertain trying to build one and as I mentioned, can't have additional store where i am.
    Also, what does the DOT have to say about a 300gallon liquid system on vehicles. I am sure they have a whole new set of rules??
     
  7. szorno

    szorno Senior Member
    Messages: 308

    Most DOT's care about what is inthe tanks and is the truck overloaded. Most liquid deicers have an easily available Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). Keep in mind that most deicers are also heavy. 10-11 lbs per gallon. Always factor that in to the equation when matching sprayer and truck. ie- 325 gal requires a 3500 series dually to be safe. Always do your own math.
     
  8. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,955

     
  9. mpgall26

    mpgall26 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    Kubota, I was curious how much area I could do with 300gal realizing there are many variables. Chemical containers gave me a price of 6k for 300 3 lane w/o further details....ain't happening. That didn't include baffles, 275@12.95ea. I read your baffle solution but didn't understand it. I won't make any of my own this year so I am trying to research supply.
     
  10. mpgall26

    mpgall26 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    I just saw your unit on eBay but remember reading in your posts here that a guy already bought it ??
     
  11. mpgall26

    mpgall26 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    If I was to eventually make my own I would have to make it indoors where the temp is 60?? Maybe able to if I could set up in a parking lot but inside I would have to lease space
     
  12. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,955

    You can make brine inside or out at just about any temp. As far as brinemakers and sprayers I very rarely have the same init for more than a few months before they get sold. So always trying new products.
     
  13. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,955

    Spraying a salt brine/calcium chloride 90/10 mix I have sprayed as little as 60 gpa and as much as 120 gallons per acre. Depending on the moisture content of the snow, how much snow I was trying to melt and how fast I wanted / needed it to melt. Some Canadians on here told me they fed corrugated drainage tubing into their tanks. I found that to be rather difficult and didnt fill the tank right. So I took that drainage tubing and cut it into pieces with a utility knife into pieces about 2 foot long until the tank was completely filled with the tubing. Works awesome. Cheap too,About 100 feet per 100 gallon tank and about $20 per hundred feet.
     
  14. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,955

    I used it for the first time with a chemical and sprayed weeds in a couple driveways the other day. But only had to use the garden hose fitting and garden hose. No boom spraying needed. Might need to change the auction info, I used it for about an hour.
     
  15. mpgall26

    mpgall26 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    Looks like initial search on internet and some locals shows a supply problem in my area. Big drawback is being unable to drive to the yard and fill up like salt. Driving all over defeats the whole purpose of cost effective, which makes my mind spin. Maybe next off seasons venture will be production for sales. Better sharpen my pencil and hit the phones, I'm sure it's not an easy venture, which is why it isn't at every supply yard.
     
  16. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,955

    Real easy to make liquid salt brine and mix with numerous different liquids. Basically just need liquid storage tanks.
     
  17. mpgall26

    mpgall26 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    Could someone post a pics of a baffle made from irrigation/drainage tubing. Kubota was saying cut into 2 ft pieces. I assume down the middle to make semi-circle and then 2ft. full circular tubing would trap fluids I assume
     
  18. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,955

    Just take a piece of pipe and cut off a length and put it in the tank. Then repeat as many times as necessary to fill tank.

    8d591c43-7c22-4231-99ca-36187daef5ec_400.jpg

    cut with a utility knife to avoid shavings or small pieces of plastic. Length doesnt matter, whatever length is easiest to put in your tank.

    Final Words Of Wisdom.........when using a used rusty blade, the pipe will be hard to cut. When using a shiny, sharp New blade do NOT lay pipe over your leg/thigh to cut pipe. NEW blades are SHARP.

    8d591c43-7c22-4231-99ca-36187daef5ec_400.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2012
  19. szorno

    szorno Senior Member
    Messages: 308

    One other quick thought to toss out. If you consistantly have temps under 25* then you will want to consider an additive to your salt brine (such as beet or corn byproducts) or perhaps stepping up to a premixed solution based on magnesium chloride or calcium chloride. The mag is where you have weights of 11 lbs per gallon and need to be careful. PM me or hit my web page later this week for a copy of our "Liquid Deicing resources" sheet.
     
  20. ChlorideGuy

    ChlorideGuy Member
    Messages: 77

    Hey mpgall26, if you decide NOT to make your own brine and you're looking for a liquid deicer to purchase, give us a call. We were at the snow and ice show last year in Marburough. We can get brine out to you in bulk loads (about 4700 gallons) for around $1.00 a gallon.
    Ask for ED 810-395-8600