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ConnDOT Changing To Salt Almost Exclusively

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by jt5019, Nov 23, 2006.

  1. jt5019

    jt5019 Senior Member
    Messages: 853

    http://www.wfsb.com/news/10383189/detail.html

    EAST GRANBY, Conn. -- The state plans to change its longstanding snow removal practice this winter, Eyewitness News has learned.

    Channel 3 I-Team reporter Len Besthoff reported the state plans to use salt almost exclusively to melt ice and snow on the roads.

    When drivers see snow or ice on the road, many just want it to melt so they can get where they want to go.

    "It's scary because it's slippery," said Liz Jachym.

    "It is a little nerve-wracking," said Abbegale Drake.

    For years, Connecticut has used a mix of salt and sand to treat its roads, but after extensive research, the Department of Transportation has decided to use almost 100 percent rock salt, sodium chloride.

    "Very little sand in the equation. It's an all salt, chemical priority policy this year," said Pat Rodgers, a ConnDOT transportation maintenance manager.

    Besthoff reported the state is cutting sand from the formula because it's too much trouble and expense to buy it, store it, spread it and then clean it up and dispose it.

    "Once we put sand on the roadway, we feel that after 16, 18, 20 cars, the effectiveness of that sand has dissipated," said Mike Lonergan, ConnDOT's engineering administrator.

    ConnDOT officials also said crews will add calcium chloride to the mix. Calcium chloride is a different kind of salt that will be stored in tanks on snowplow trucks and spread in liquid form just seconds before the road salt gets put down.

    "The salt needs moisture, or some type of moisture, to activate quicker," said Dan DiNardi, a snow plow operator. "So, this calcium chloride, it activates the calcium chloride that much faster so that when it hits the road, it keeps the roads bare and clear."

    "Calcium chloride applied to salt will go down to zero degrees. A lot of the New England states like to refer to it as salt on steroids," Lonergan said.

    Some drivers Eyewitness News spoke with wondered whether a strictly-salt policy will affect their cars. The state emphasized that it will use roughly the same amount of salt as in years past and the new calcium chloride liquid will have a rust inhibitor.

    Still, some believe any amount of salt will corrode cars.

    "It's still going to, you know, rust your vehicle. It's still going to have some impact on your vehicle," said Will Livermore.

    "The salt almost seems to, you can feel it eating away on the car," Jachym said.

    In fact, the Oregon Department of Transportation said it does not use salt on the roads because of what it believes salt does to vehicles, steel bridges and the environment.

    On the flip side, researchers and auto body experts said today's vehicles are made with much better corrosion-resistant paints that fight off the effects of road salt.

    Connecticut is one of the last states in New England to move to almost strictly salt, which is already a common practice in Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine and New Hampshire.
     
  2. 06HD BOSS

    06HD BOSS 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,611

    It took them this long to figure out!:dizzy:
     
  3. J J Landscaping

    J J Landscaping Junior Member
    Messages: 28

    J J Landscaping

    Yes guys - The change is here. the plan was how much money they could save in the spring. I,m told its about a 2 month task of street sweeping and all that go,s into it. That is a lot of $. I donot think my calculator go,s that high. They did need this year to work out the bugs in that plan. From my 20 years out here in storms i still can here the sand a week later under my tires. DOT,s calculator must have malfunstioned. I am planning for mostly salt and building a liquid tank set-up for next year. If you ask any landscaping company around here if they are going to start the change this is what your going to here. No one wants to here it, most donot thing it will work and it will be 3 or 4 years before i see a lot of it in my area. I thing i am ready and will start to work it in. What are the guys around your areas thinking of all of this. Jimmy
     
  4. ThisIsMe

    ThisIsMe Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 745

    Huh?
    We got roads in in Mass that look like dirt roads with all the sand on them right now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2007
  5. Oshkosh

    Oshkosh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,655

    Dont forget how bad sand is for your lungs...

    One of the big reasons Maine DOT is getting away from sand is that the end result when the sand is beat down to powder is Silica and that is nasty stuff for your lungs.So they tell us...
    It is basically hazardous waste when it is sitting in the gutter...
     
  6. ThisIsMe

    ThisIsMe Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 745

    Well I a sure that 30 years ago they spent millions on a study to figure such out. Then another $10mil for another study 20 years ago, and most likely another $30mil on a study to reinforce the study that was done before.

    So all in all 30 years and most likely $50mil in studies, seems about par for government. :dizzy:

    Then again they could of sent one guy over to Europe 30 years ago and seen that none use any sand, and most no salt. Could of saved millions with just one cheap trip. Then again I am making sense.
     
  7. BBailey

    BBailey Junior Member
    from Vermont
    Messages: 28

    You should come to Vermont and see all the "Salt Reduction Area" signs that are up in the past few years. The VT AOT has been putting down some pretty good 1/4 inch+ sand down lately it seems. The windshield replacement business has been good this year from what I hear!:dizzy:
     
  8. Oshkosh

    Oshkosh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,655

    I'm not sure what it was...

    I'm not sure what it was but when I used to sled out west(Rabbit Ears Pass) in Colorado the spreaders where putting out this coarse black stuff,almost looked like pumice..I was told they didn't use salt because of federal forest land or something???????
     
  9. ThisIsMe

    ThisIsMe Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 745

    Seems like a good time to invest in Urea manufactures.
     
  10. BBailey

    BBailey Junior Member
    from Vermont
    Messages: 28

    No, it is definitely screened sand that they are putting down on the highways here in VT. Some of the stones just seem real large, you can see them flying at your vehicle from a good 25-30 feet away before they smack your vehicle when they are kicked up by a vehicle in front of you!:realmad:
     
  11. J J Landscaping

    J J Landscaping Junior Member
    Messages: 28

    J J Landscaping

    Hi guys - We,ve only got 3/4" snow storms so far this winter. ThisisMe-I could not imagine trying to drive on the roads in places like North Adams with no sand. Oshkosh - I love those 2 trucks, now thats what i call plow trucks. After it,s sweept up in spring it,s called hazardous material. We use screened red sand and salt mix here so they can see we did sand it. Only 1 contractor here has a liquid set-up in his truck. A couple are useing just salt and everyone else is still letting the sand fly. I,m going to try a liquid set-up in one truck next winter and see how it works out. I don,t know if i would want to drive on some of my roads or your roads in the montain areas with no sand. I Love Vermont. - Jimmy
     
  12. ThisIsMe

    ThisIsMe Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 745

    Oh I agree 100% there. I am just questioning the reporter. Been all over a good part of MA the past couple of weeks and the reporters statement about "common practice in Massachusetts" is just pure BS. I can confirm it is BS in a good part of Southern NH as well.

    I am sure if it were common practice someone here would pipe in and say "yep my town in MA has switched all to salt / no sand". Maybe in Boston and the city this could be true, but nowhere else as I can tell.

    The reporter is obviously one sided on the issue and instead or reporting is trying to sway the situation, as silly as it seems
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2007
  13. Plowfast9957

    Plowfast9957 Senior Member
    Messages: 280

    I am in southeastern Mass and the roads around here are white. That is the town and state maintained roads. I dont think they are using any sand around here anymore.
     
  14. ThisIsMe

    ThisIsMe Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 745

    Small world. :) Rt 1 in Plainville was one of the roads I was on in the past couple weeks. Seemed they were dumping salt and sand on there at an insane rate (saving the budget maybe?). Not sure further South though. Is RT 1 done by the state or the towns down there?

    Saw a buddy of mine that plows and sands for the state on RT 2 pre-stage his equipment for the upcoming storm this morning. Looks like sand/salt mix.

    Would be nice to see the sand go away though.
     
  15. Oshkosh

    Oshkosh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,655

    The last time I loaded up...

    I know Mass Highway was trying to get away from sand for the above mentioned reasons.
    There is also public perception that if they cannot see some brown on the roads they must not be treated to head that off Mass Highway bought a brown tinted sand I think it came out of South America???Not sure on that end of things....It went down and had the color of sand but was salt...
    Getting back to getting away from sand,We would put down 100% salt, Calcium whatever we where trying that season.... the first pass was 100% to create a brine between the pavement and snow(Keeping the snow/ice from adhering to the pavement.Spraying the salt speeds that process up.
    During the storm we would use a 50/50 mix as not to waste the salt by just scraping it off as we plowed but also keeping it the road soft and a little traction if needed.The word is Grit but no boss likes that word...
    When the storm tapered the plows would make one more pass and we would hit it 100%, one more time and burn it off...That was common place around the area that I was working...
    When the sun came out the roads where black and wet!!!!!!!! A bosses dream!
    After going threw The State of Maine's snow-fighter school it seems they are leaning in the same direction.Only there roads are less priority roads and they assume the residents know how to slow down or at least drive in snow...Unlike Mass drivers........so they do it at a more laid back pace....Less equipment more lane miles...
     
  16. Idealtim

    Idealtim Senior Member
    Messages: 268

    I like how someone said that the salt doesn't hurt modern vehicals - another piece of genuine b.s.:nono: True, mabey a fresh new painted undercarrage would hold up better, but not enough to say that there immune to it, and besides, think of how many cars on the road aren't that new and do suffer.
     
  17. jt5019

    jt5019 Senior Member
    Messages: 853

  18. J J Landscaping

    J J Landscaping Junior Member
    Messages: 28

    J J Landscaping

    All white here, an i do mean very white. State Roads Rt 190 and 191 is all salt. Only have sean 1 liquid truck. I stoped in to the town garage this week to look at there set-ups. My father was the master machanic there for 28 years so they will show me anything i want to see. They running about 60% salt, 40% sand and liquid calcium. A lot of towns still 90% sand. For the people that just drive to work and then drive home they are lucky. For us guys that are in it all nite and day with are trucks we are going to be looking for more trucks in 4 years to replace are rusted out ones. Jimmy


    89 f-150 4x4 (no plow)
    89 f-250 4x4 Ext Cab Meyers 9
    94 f-250 4x4 Ext Cab Curtis 9
    96 Ranger 2wheel
    73 f250 4x4 western 8 - sorry i can,t part with it