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Cmak

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by n y snow pros, Nov 3, 2000.

  1. n y snow pros

    n y snow pros Senior Member
    Messages: 246

    Iowastorm,I saw that you mentioned Cmak in the other thread.Have you ever used this product before?I am not putting it down as it is an execellent product and you mentioned that Magic cant hold a candle to it.Beleive me i am not taking this personally but if you have never used Magic and If you have never used Cmak how can you make such a statement? Again maybe you have used Cmak i dont know but you definitly got my curiosity though when you said you were going to use this product before during and after the storm and try to keep up with the storm by applying it to sidewalks and roadways as pretreated.Unless i am reading this wrong i think someone has sold you a miracle and i can tell you from experience Cmak is no miracle and neither is Magic.If you have never used chemicals in there liquid form on sidewalks and your going to try to keep up with a storm and melt the snow,i can tell you what will happen and i know this from my trip to the PNS conference this past spring in British Columbia Canada.Now this is based on the feeling i have that you have not had experience with chemicals and applying straight to asphalt or concrete and i hope i am wrong.If this is true then i will tell you that you are going to have several problems which you need to be aware of.The 1st problem will be you will over apply causing additional exspense.The reason you over apply is because you are not familiar with the product and therefore you may feel you need to use additional product(as you said earlier the only downside is price well that is 1 problem)2nd the unacustom user will apply product during all storms.Bad move.Why, all chemicals work or fail to work due to 3 conditions humidity,ground temperature and or air temperature.If 2 of these 3 condtions are not met you will have serious conseqences.Now if you are familar with this product then i wish you the best of luck and i will stop talking to you as if you never used liquids in this manner and i do not mean any disrespect in anyway except one.Magic blew away all chemicals in all catagories including Cmak in the PNS test results.Please ask your supplier about the PNS test results as all chemical companies were there holding there breath to see how they faired.Your supplier would know Magic by the name of M50. If new to chemicals USE CAUTION!
     
  2. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    Just thought PNS may be of interest to other here.
    NY snow pros didn't leave the URL.

    http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/fossc/maint/pns/


    Pacific Northwest Snowfighters Consortium

    Background

    "The states of Washington, Oregon, Montana and Idaho and recently British Colombia have formed a committee to develop specifications for chemicals related to snow and ice control. The consortium is comprised of technical experts in the fields of Chemistry, Environment, Corrosion Science, insurance law and claims, and Legal/Purchasing. The consortium has been privileged to work with the foremost pioneers in deicing technology."



    ~Chuck
     
  3. iowastorm

    iowastorm Senior Member
    Messages: 358

    CMAK is a clear liquid that does not need agitation during the application process, so I don't see the problem of gelling. Also, because it is clear, I think it will alleviate some of the concerns with tracking into buildings and damaging/staining carpet.

    I have spend countless hours reseaching this product, its users and all of the application rates, condtions, etc. I have used it on a limited basis last year under test conditions and it performed well as a pre-treatment and during the storm. As you point out the many variables, snow duration, rates and lenghth, all must be taken into account for maximum effect. Since most of the snowfalls we receive here in Iowa total under 5", it makes the product all most worthwhile for us. We can get by with a pre-treatment and a n application during the storm (done by property maintenance staff, not my staff) and a follow-up with the dry product after the snow.

    In no way did I mean to offend the Magic gods. I've done some research about the product and spoken to VENDORS that sell it. They weren't impressed with it or it's performance. Not sure why? Furthermore, we don't use salt here either. We opt to use sand in the parking lots and drives because it's readily available and we can sell our sweeping services to our customers, thus making us more money.

    What's the point of all this? The point is to be able to offer better and more professional services to your clients that your competition can't or doesn't offer. All the while, increasing the bottom line. Do I think CMA is the savior of the world? Yes, I have a CMA prayer rug that I'm sitting on doing my meditation right now. In fact, next week we're coming out with CMA trading cards, with my staff posing the product and its sprayer units. Man this is fun.
     
  4. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Iowastorms post got me thinking(always dangerous)
    First again I must applaud him for looking at new ideas. Yes there is more than one product that will acclomplish the same goals. He looked and CMAK will work for him, whereas magic works for others, and Geoff uses liquid mag, and get good results. the bottom line is that by looking at products you do separate yourself from all the others out there. WHY?
    Because it is much easier to stay with the staus quo, than to try something different.It is hard to get info on new products. Now iowa may have a better chance than some of us in that regard, in that the Iowa DOT uses some of the most current methods and equipment for their snow removal. Which maybe he can use when talking to clients.
    Me and others have found that all the equipment and chemicals are really marketed to DOT's and municipalities, private guys are way down on the food chain, even tho we represent a huge segment of money.I may only use 40 ton per year of salt, but so do 10 other guys in my market, together we add up to much more than what some townships near me use. That is one goal of SIMA to give a large voice to all the small guys. I dont know if it is working yet, but they are trying.
    So if a DOT show is in your area, plan to attend, you may be surprised at what you find. It is how we found magic, and urethane edges, so maybe your savior of the world is at the show.
    Again Iowa, good job at bringing your level of service up a notch, and for trying something new. He also did a good thing, by testing the product in a limited use last year, so he is familiar with it, and how it will work for himself and his clients. Many times new ideas have a 2-3 year run time before profits can be realised.
    Dino
     
  5. iowastorm

    iowastorm Senior Member
    Messages: 358

    This stuff is manufactured here in Iowa, so although the cost is greater, it's more cost effective for me because we can send a truck to pick up the product. One note: the price issue really hasn't been a factor because of the other benefits that outweigh the price. Most property maintenance staffs salivate at the possibilities of reducing shoveling/blowing time or even eliminating it all together on small snows, etc.,etc, blah, blah, blah.

    Dino, is this an ebony and ivory thing going on? I appreciate the kind words. Tears are filling my eyes.
     
  6. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    I feel verclempt.
    Anyway, I just wanted to show all members that I personally dont think that I am always right, or that my methods are the only ones that will work. You mentioned that the magic gods might tear you apart. Just because you use a different product doesnt lessen the value of that product. You did the homework needed to ensure that you sold a viable service to your customers, much the same way we tested magic last year, and now have sold a viable service this year to our customers.
    But what you did by actively pursuing the infomation is what I applaud the most. Few in our industry have done that. SIMA helped me along that road, you I believe found the idea a dfifferent way, yet the end result is the same. Added benifit to our customers, and hopefully more profit for us.
    Dino
     
  7. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    Dino,

    I use liquid mag cloride, on my pre wet systems. This is a lot easier to do than pure mag cloride onto the lot.

    Geoff
     
  8. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Yes Geoff I was aware of that, I was just relating that many products will work, and the one that works for may be different than the one that works for another. Doesnt make it better or worse just different. In fact I was surprised that others were even using pre wet systems or entertaining the idea of liquid apps, because the makers of such equipment do a terrible job of marketing that equipment to us.
    Dino
     
  9. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    Don't worry be happy now do do do do du do du do,there is just some much love and understanding floating around I don't know if I should hug my screen or pat my own back.
     
  10. iowastorm

    iowastorm Senior Member
    Messages: 358

    CMAK Allah says there shall be snow in thy forecast soon.
     
  11. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    Dino, your right about the marketing on pre-wet systems. The reason I have them, is my dealer ordered something, that he has had a hard time selling.

    Geoff
     
  12. iowastorm

    iowastorm Senior Member
    Messages: 358

    I think Dino is right about the only marketing to the DOT's and municipalities. Here is Des Moines, we have a huge amount of new construction and expansion going on: residentially and commercially. All of this opens opportunities for new business. One of the best sales angles for us has been to show concern for the new properties by showing the customer how we can reduce equipment and labor costs along with potential damage by using safe de-icer products. Since most of these companies are banks, property management companies, etc. they have money to spend. Hope all of this at some point adds to the bottom line.