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Clearing Snow Down to Pavement

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by RLS, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. RLS

    RLS Junior Member
    from Alberta
    Messages: 21

    Hi guys

    This will be my second season as a snow contractor. The contracts that I have are for shopping complexs that get a lot of traffic during the day.

    Everytime you clear parking lots, are you guys getting down to pavement? I use skidsteers (Bobcat S330) and am not getting down to pavement everytime I go out to clear. Where there was limited traffic, i'm able to get down, but the high traffic areas is definitely a problem. I am only clearing the top bit of snow that has fallen, but not getting down trhough the packed stuff.

    When the weather warms up a bit, then I have to go out and spend almost double the time on each lot breaking down through the snow to the pavement.

    Is this normal? I am use snow buckets on the machine. Would wheel loaders work better?

    Any help/comments/recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks
     
  2. erkoehler

    erkoehler PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,266

    Are you salting the lots at all?
     
  3. SNOWLORD

    SNOWLORD Senior Member
    from MN
    Messages: 610

    Salt!!! Salt!!
     
  4. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985

    Pretreating the Lot would help in getting it to pavement.....If the customer is willing to pay for it.....


    Salting after Plowing has finished would Greatly help getting it to pavement....

    You need to sit down with the customer and see what their Expectations are and what they are willing to pay for....:drinkup:
     
  5. Mick76

    Mick76 2000 Club Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 2,157

    as stated above pretreating will help... I do a few smaller (3 ac) shopping complexs with skids.... buy an arctic sectional snow pusher.... best investment you could make.... will easily scrape hardpack and save you a TON of time
     
  6. hoskm01

    hoskm01 Senior Member
    from AZ
    Messages: 475

    A third for pre-treating. Only good things come of it.
     
  7. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    UMMM, in Alberta salt is not allowed/used
     
  8. wizardsr

    wizardsr PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,552

    You're joking right...
     
  9. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    ummm, nope, not at all, the province discourages it, on public roads they used a very light calcium spray, like 5 percent and sand
     
  10. RLS

    RLS Junior Member
    from Alberta
    Messages: 21

    Well then, thats good to know! Thanks buckwheat. Do you guys get down to pavement everytime?
     
  11. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    you should chat with the guys at volker stevin, they hate the fact they can't use much. But you know, we do manage to get things down very well, what are you using on your machines?
     
  12. wizardsr

    wizardsr PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,552

    You're going to take someone's word that salt is prohibited? Not saying buckwheat's an idiot, but wise man once said, "trust, but verify".

    Unless you can break the bond between the packed snow/ice and the pavement, you're not going to have a lot of success in scraping it up. Hence why everyone recommends salt or pre-treating or both of you want to get down to pavement reliably.
     
  13. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    so i am doing some reading on this, just to give you a idea, i have a pdf for the alberta government, as a example,

    salt is not spread after -10 celsius, and before, the numbers they throw around is like this

    50kg-1km of road, 2 lanes - 225kg-1km of road 2 lanes, even the high amount isn't very much, and reading the pdf, they give you examples of when/how to use less too. I could go into particulars about my conversation with the volker manager i talked to, but needless to say they rarely use salt, and even their brine is mixed very light.
     
  14. TheRealBuzz

    TheRealBuzz Member
    from ON, CAN
    Messages: 43

    I'm thinking the "no salt" info your looking at only applies to public roads use. I'd be surprised if there was a province-wide ban on salting private property.
     
  15. RLS

    RLS Junior Member
    from Alberta
    Messages: 21

    Just using snow buckets. They work great when I through a new blade on, but only for an hour or so! I did try a pusher one night but the wheels on the bobcat just kept spinning (it was a 10', perhaps I should have tried the 8').
     
  16. hoskm01

    hoskm01 Senior Member
    from AZ
    Messages: 475

    Given the fact that Albert, I assume, is rather cold most of the season, is mag or calcium used RATHER than salt? That would make a whole lot more sense. Pre treat with liquid mag for great results.
     
  17. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    Most of the units use a liquid system that sprays the sand as it goes down, but as I remember it, I was told that a 5% solution was all the province allowed them to use.
     
  18. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    You are correct, however salting is regulated by Alberta environment, and they have strict rules and fines about how much you may use. Keeping in mind, I am NOT a province official, but it is commonly talked about here, how we don't use much salt in Alberta. We only spot apply salt on anything. When I first started out, I applied a bunch of bagged salt to a lot at the customers request, he then told me that a city official had been in his store, and had told him he could get in trouble for putting straight salt over his entire lot because it was considered excessive, and that there were guildlines by the Alberta Government on how much and what conditions salt can be applied. So I should amemd my statement a bit. Alberta doesn't ban salt, but its use is discouraged highly.
     
  19. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    I am not sure what size of skid you are running, but a 10 ft pusher is pretty much too big for most skids. Snow buckets work ok for doing a good scrape, a guy i know made a blade for his skid with the ice blade cutting edges that graders use, to remove hard pack, and it worked rather well. It was only 6 feet wide, but because you are using it after the fact there really isn't a whole lot of actual material there, so he breaks it up with the blade, then uses his snow bucket to scope it up after
     
  20. dfd9

    dfd9 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,475

    Not to mention how much drier it is, so less chlorides of any variety would be needed.