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Central hydraulics

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by john r, Sep 17, 2001.

  1. john r

    john r Senior Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 239

    Hello,
    Ive decided to not buy another vbox and opted for central hyd and a tailgate spreader. Has anyone gone through the installation of the central hydraulics? Should I be aware of anything before installation? What would be a better pump? What size hyd resovoir should I have? What type of cab controlls should I look into? My truck is a 99 f450 dump, auto, 4x4, diesel. PTO runs off xmission to lift dump. Any advice will be helpfull! Thanks, John Reich
     
  2. cat320

    cat320 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,223

    You could look at www.munciepower.com they do hydraulic stuff like central I saw something on there that does a small dump and has provistions for plow ,sander take a look they might have what you want or can give you info.I always had on question on useing the whole dump bed for sanding.

    1. If you load up when you leave the shop and don't sand for hours will you end up with a very wet load unable to gp thru the tailgate sander.

    2. Does the material get stuck in the body.

    3. How long will you bed last by dumping salt/sand mix in it?

    Because those tail gate units cost as much as a good vbox.
     
  3. CT18fireman

    CT18fireman Banned
    Messages: 2,133

    get in touch with Central Parts Warehouse. They have a website. They sell complete systems and cn recommend the best setup for you. I always say to go as big or powerful as you can.
     
  4. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    You can go belt driven, which works fairly well.

    On that truck you can do PTO off the transmission.

    Or the best option, a Chlesa PTO system off the crank shaft.

    I would opt for either air or electric controlled valves to ellimate 50 hydro lines in the cab of your truck.

    Geoff
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2001
  5. cat320

    cat320 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,223

  6. john r

    john r Senior Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 239

    cat320- I've painted the bed with lava liner. This material is impervious to salt and chemicals etc. It will prevent rust and it will allow the sand mix to slide freely. Reguarding letting it sit in the bed for hours, its no different than letting it sit in a vhopper for hours. Tailgate spreaders require next to no maintanence if you buy a gear or direct drive unit. (thats music to my ears!). Installing and removing can be done with two people. No need for a large storage area like a v hopper. Low to no maintanence, quick install and removall. Thats music in my Wallet!! I dont know, maybe Im making a mistake going for the tailgate unit? It might cost a little more now but who needs more maint. headaches? If I need the truck bed for work I can remove the tailgate spreader in a matter of minutes. The v hopper takes only a few minutes more??????// Right?
     
  7. cat320

    cat320 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,223

    John I always woundered if they wear beter than a v box like you said easy on off less to mantain plus more payload.I never heard of that linner stuff is that a local store pick item or a commercial product.I like the thought of being able to dump the rest of the load after use if left over.How much is the unit that your getting,Is it stanless or steel and what brand?
     
  8. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    I've got both an undertailgate and a vee box. Given the choice I'd go with the undertailgate. No need to dismount hte spreader to use the truckas a dump, just drop the cover down and go to work. Mine runs off a belt drive central pump and has a 25 gallon tank. One beauty is that, as oppsed to a vee box, you have total control of both material delivery rates and spread width. Wind the feed aguers upa nd the spinner slow and you can lay a virtually solid band of salt right on the centerline of a street. Increase the spinner speed and slow the augers and you can put a light coat over a wide area, such as a parkign lot with just a hint of ice on it. Central systems are expensive, but if you're starting from scratch you can ammortize (sp?) over many functions, dump hoist, spreader, and plow lift and angle.
     
  9. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    I am sold on a Central Hydro system.

    However I think the best set up is a PTO off the crank shaft. Tranmision is good, if you can run your pto and drive at the same time.

    However if you use a hot shift PTO off the crankshaft you will have a good system.

    Geoff
     
  10. CT18fireman

    CT18fireman Banned
    Messages: 2,133

    I don't think there is much room underhood to consider running a Belt Drive system on a Ford F450. I only run 350 and can't imagine doing one in that. Although I have A/C in mine. Geoff do the 450's have available room?
     
  11. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    John,

    I must have been brain dead when I read your original post, I completely missed the question about has anyone done their own central install. Yes, I have, from the ground up, twice. Once on an 85 F-350, 460, manual and again on a 71 GMC 5500.

    Maybe I should say three times as the F-350 got done twice. The first time was just to run the hoist, the second was to upgrade to spreader operation as well. I learned a bunch on the first go round, typical learn as you go situation, and it cost me another tuition payment in the school of experience.

    Space is probably the worst consideration. While there may appear to be a lot of room under the hood it gets used up really fast. CPW has the brackets and pulleys in kit form which will make life much easier. First install I made my own brackets and tried to run off the stock belt locations. Nice idea but could not get enough pulley contact to drive the pump reliably when the load was heavy. Second time around I went with an install kit, dedicated pulley and bracket with plenty of belt adjustment. The other big item is room to route the hoses. Suction side is 1 1/4" and pressure is 1". Neither is particularly easy to maneuver in any tight bends so I ended up using some fittings to help get everything located.

    Even under the hood of the 5500, where it looks wide open I had problems with the hoses, I finally had to make a full loop in the suction line to accomodate the bend needed to get up through the frame and onto the pump.

    As for the tank, it really should be as high as possible, ideal would be to have the oil level above the pump inlet. Not really possible or practical in all applications.

    Crank drive pump would be nice, but usually the radiator is in the way and I'm not sure aobut getting a cutaway radiator, like the big trucks run, in the light duty models. The other consideration is that the gas engines and smaller diesels turn higher RPMs than big truck engines do. I'm not sure the pumps would like being wound that tight. Your Ford has the pto setup off the transmission input shaft, probably turning at engien RPM, it might be worth the effort to double check the allowable RPM range on any pump you attach there, although that is the perfect place to mount and drive the size pump you need to run a spreader.

    Couple choices on valving. The neatest and most expensive uses solenoid operated valves for all functions and keeps everythign but a bunch of wires out of the cab. On the 350 I had only dump and spreader controls so I ran the lines right into the cab (bucket seats), not very pretty but then again it was only a Ford. On the GMC I used cable controlled valves for dump and plow functions. The spreader control sits on top of a tubular column with all the lines going straight down through the floor and out of sight. If they ever do leak it will drain out the bottom rather than oiling the cab interior down. The dump and plow control valves are mounted up high, under the dump bed, I was trying to keep them out of as much slush and salt as possible. The cables and control handles are floor mounted, but again, I had split seating so I had the room. If I had kept the bench seat I would have had NO room for any of this stuff and we're talking a full size truck cab.

    Installation required a lot of head scratching and a few detours along the way but it works good. If you've got the time and talent it's definately a doable project. CPW has the complete kits with everythign engineered to fit on the first try, I'd go that route if the kit was available for the truck I was working with.

    Hope this helps.
     
  12. cat320

    cat320 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,223

    Alan maybe you could post some pictures of your handy work.Never did see you dump finished with the central hydraulics. Have you ever say the one that muncie has on there web site says sytem fro small dumps and can be able to handel more uses I think an electric cab control one.Take a look it's under other products in there product page.
     
  13. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    I think any newer fullsize truck, ie F 350,450,550. Would require a PTO off the trans of crankshaft if it is even possible. There just isn't enough room for belt driven pumps.

    Geoff

    Weather 60s and 70s, a few showers next week, and there is a local fair going on just north of portland. Cumberland to be exact.

    Geoff
     
  14. CT18fireman

    CT18fireman Banned
    Messages: 2,133

    Thank you!