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Central hydraulics install

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by xtreem3d, Jan 10, 2015.

  1. xtreem3d

    xtreem3d PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,548

    Evening guys,
    I may look into buying a newer dump truck to replace my old one. If I do and I get one without central hydraulics are there basic kits made for each truck and engine combination or is it a lot of fabricating brackets. Also is there an easy way to figure out what the new belt should be?
    Thanks,
    Steve
     
  2. derekslawncare

    derekslawncare PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,003

    I'm thinking this would be a good question for your local upfitter, that would be doing the install anyways, (unless you were planning on doing it yourself). Even then, you could still check with your local upfitter as they will probably be able to tell you all the quirks for your make/model.
     
  3. framer1901

    framer1901 Senior Member
    Messages: 813

    We bought a pump and mount from these guys, pump may have been a rebuilt one, but didn't really care. I had to get them a company that made the bracket for our application, it just wasn't listed on their website.

    Hydro stuff is sorta funny, it has to be sized right - pump, valve body, plumbing and tank.

    It's really easy to install, just bolt it on and run some hoses - it's the sizing for application, how are you running the lines etc.. that are difficult.

    http://www.hydraulicstore.com/clutchpumps.html
     
  4. xtreem3d

    xtreem3d PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,548

    I would like to do it my self ,if possible
     
  5. xtreem3d

    xtreem3d PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,548

    Thanks for that info..i wouldn't have known that,
    Steve
     
  6. derekslawncare

    derekslawncare PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,003

    Another VERY important thing to check is that you make sure the vehicle you are installing on has a "live drive" PTO. The new Ford that I own IS live drive, meaning the PTO is engageable ANY time AND in any GEAR. Some trucks, that is not the case. PTO's can only be engaged while the truck is in neutral, not a big deal if you are just running a dump bed. But if you were running a hooklift (like mine) or a hydraulic spreader like mine, that wouldn't work worth a damn. I also will have my next plow set up to run on central hydraulics as I hear that is the cat's meow. I almost did it this time, but my Meyer upfitter talked me down off the ledge. If I had bought a BOSS from the upfitter that built the rest of my truck, it would be now. :( So be sure your chassis is live drive BEFORE you do ANYTHING.
     
  7. jhenderson9196

    jhenderson9196 Senior Member
    Messages: 615

    Live PTO has nothing to do with either a clutch type hyd pump or a crank driven pump, which are the 2 most popular retrofit systems.
     
  8. derekslawncare

    derekslawncare PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,003

    I realize that, but he didn't specify that he was doing a clutch pump or crank driven, (which I see on cement trucks, and trash trucks around here, but not usually anything smaller) and since I didn't know what size chassis he was looking at, I wanted to be sure he was aware of that IMPORTANT distinction. It also makes a difference what upfitter you are dealing with because some push one set up more than the other, (my Meyer upfitter wanted to install a clutch pump on my truck to run the plow if I went cent hydro even though it was already equipped with the PTO driven system because they didn't trust that my chassis was live drive even though I could show them it was on Ford's website. (this is when I was specking my truck to have it built). Yeah you read that right, they wanted two separate systems, so I just wanted to make sure he knew what to look for. This truck was my first go around at hydraulics and it was a learning experience for me to say the least. It almost seemed like I got different info depending on what upfitter I was at.
     
  9. framer1901

    framer1901 Senior Member
    Messages: 813

    The different PTO's is a good point - we broke a transmission trying to use one that shouldn't have been used - hence the clutch pumps.

    You can run a pump off the crankshaft, as an accessary (clutch pump) or the tranny.

    As far as I know, crankshaft driven and accessary driven pumps can run continuous like to run a spreader or plow. Running a pump off the transmission (like a dump truck) - I understand it's the transmission that really determines if you can run it live or not - our 2012 Freightliner with an Allison 2xxx tranny won't run a live PTO....

    Central hydraulics can be very intimidating to put together or spec out, what you are going to do with it determines sizes of pumps and valves, how you are going to do it is determined by the valve. Well worth it though.

    Just a reference, the valve for our new truck was $3400. It has 4 sections; electric on / off for the plow, two pwm controled sections for the spreader and one air controlled section for the bed. All four sections have different flow rates and pressure set points. The price was so huge that I spent a week solid trying to figure it out and spec my own parts and pieces to get the cost down - I gave up.

    Talk with a hydraulic company, tell them what you want to do, how you want to control it, let them spec it and sell you the parts and pieces. Installing it is easy unless you are running a hi tech controller like a dickey john...
     
  10. xtreem3d

    xtreem3d PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,548

    I'm getting a little worried now that I may not spec everything properly..I guess that's why I thought there might be ready to go kits. I should have said I prefer the electric clutch pump setup so that I can turn it off.
    Steve
     
  11. derekslawncare

    derekslawncare PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,003

    Yeah, after the 6 weeks i spent researching and specking my f550, that is why i was being very specific with you. My 550 is a trans mounted, live drive PTO that is engaged/turned off with the flick of a rocker switch in the cab. Very nice set up, but like was said above, there are a million different combos with pressures, valves, GPM's. It's not something you want to go into half baked. That is why I suggested going to your upfitter with your truck and letting someone who is knowledgeable about it and does it all day long do all the specking for you. Even if you did the install, I would still let then steer you towards the right brand/set up for your situation. Again, they can probably tell you the tricks and where you will have issues with the install and how to get around them. For instance, my Swaploader hooklift came as a kit with pump, valves, controls and everything, HOWEVER the Swaploader pump is too big and won't fit in the side of the trans, it hits the trans tunnel. But they knew that and had an aftermarket pump ordered to go on in its place. Hope this helps.
     
  12. framer1901

    framer1901 Senior Member
    Messages: 813

    Truck upfitters, the guys that install flat beds or build the municipal trucks - they do this stuff every day, just call them and tell them what you have and what you want to do, they will tell you what you need.

    Part costs roughly to run a spreader:
    Clutch style pump, pulley and bracket - 1000-1200
    Tank - 250
    Buyers hydro control valve - 220
    Hoses - 500-700


    Above is the basic spreader only bare minimum costs.

    If all you want to run is a spreader, tell me the year truck, engine and tranny and I can get you part numbers, it's when you start stacking valve sections that confuses me.........
     
  13. framer1901

    framer1901 Senior Member
    Messages: 813

  14. derekslawncare

    derekslawncare PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,003

     
  15. xtreem3d

    xtreem3d PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,548

    I guess I might end up with another problem and that is if I buy a dump truck ....it already has something to raise the bed but I will need to run a salter and plow so if the truck was PTO I guess I would need to scrap that , correct?
    Steve
     
  16. derekslawncare

    derekslawncare PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,003

    Not necessarily, depends on how the dump hydro is set up. Depending on how big, some are set up like a dump trailer (electric over hydraulic). So I really think your best bet would be to go to the upfitter with the truck and tell them what you want to do and let them guide you from there. I'm sure that if you were buying the parts from them, they would be happy to help you plan it even if you were doing the install yourself.
     
  17. billythekid

    billythekid Junior Member
    Messages: 14

    I plan to go central hydraulic on my next truck as well. I have a dump with pto drive dump bed and it is way better than the electric over hydraulic in my dump insert. Quiet, smooth and effortless. I would say you valve selection is the biggest factor. Hydraulic hoses can be made at napa if you really need them to. Based off of the expense of the upfit, sometimes i think it is better to do it at the time of purchase so you can just piggyback it on to the financing.
     
  18. LON

    LON Senior Member
    Messages: 749

    I have 36 years experience in selling & installing central hydraulic systems and can tell you things to avoid and what works. Just finished an install on a 15 F550 and have another in the shop getting its' clutch pump put on. Waiting in the wings is a 7400 International 4x2 and a tandem Volvo on the way. In doing central hydraulics I like to keep it simple so that the average mechanic can work on it when it breaks down. I don't care for electronics but will do one if the customers requests it.
    To be perfectly honest I stay far away from the company that's been listed in this post as most of it is of inferior quality in my opinion. I have replaced many of the dual knob spreader control valves, worked on their Chinese electronics & electric valves and end up replacing it with a quality component from a reputable company, i.e. Chelsea, Muncie, Parker, Commercial, Danfoss, etc.
    Do your research and find someone to steer you to a trouble free system that'll give you years of trouble free service.