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central hydraulic systems in small trucks

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by snow, Nov 23, 2000.

  1. snow

    snow PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 1,002

    It seems as though some people have central hydraulics in trucks 3/4 ton and below. I believe Lazer has a honda engine powered central hydraulics. Just wondering that with the cost of it being around $4000, what are the benefits for smaller vehicles. I can see benefits on dumps, but on pickup truck and small vehicles what are the benefits? someone also said a truck burned because of a central hydraulic system. Also, why not use an electric or gas engine spreader? why choose central hydraulics on smaller trucks? Just a little curious.

    Thanks,

    Bryan
     
  2. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    I put central hydro on a truck for around seven hundred,you price seems a bit steep,but then again I do all my own stuff so maybe I'm out of touch on what dealers charge.
     
  3. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    Maybe if you already have the pump and tank, as on a dump truck, you can do centrals for $700. But if you're starting from scratch there's no way you can do it for that money. For a new system you would be into it for $1800-2000 for components, plus labor. With shop rates here going in the $50/hr range and having to fabricate a lot of bracketry and hoses as you go along it would not be difficult to get another 1500-2000 into the installation, if you farm it out. I've done two of them now and they tend to be a money pit, although it's well worth the cost as far as I'm concerned.
     
  4. cat320

    cat320 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,223

    Alan can you post some pictures of some of these central hydrualic systems?
     
  5. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    Central hydraulics only cost about $2500.00 more than electric.

    Over the service life of the truck, you'll get all that money back + basically never have to worry about downtime.

    Our plow trucks have 12 funtions, which makes a difference also.
     
  6. cat320

    cat320 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,223

    Lazer what type of trucks do you have and what equipment is on them ie dump bodie,plows sander?
     
  7. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    Northen has a hydro clutch pump that I have used for my smaller dump beds for $350 and aux tank for $70 and celenoid operated valve around $400 and I do all my own fabrication but usually a day will do it so thats why I thought $4000 was a little high.
     
  8. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    Plow trucks:
    1988-1996 Dodge. (x8)
    2 new Ford 350 & 550.
    All front/rear plows. (Boss V)
    + subcontractors
    Salter is on Ford 8000.
    3 Shoveling trucks.
     
  9. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    Digger, how many circuits are you running off that system you describe? I figure at least 3 valve/cylinder circuits for dump and plow, then controls for spreader and possibly a flow divider. Hoses, control handles and cables (valve is mounted under the body)all add up pretty quick. Then there are the lines and couplers to run the spreader. Now if all you are running is a dump hoist that's pretty simple and quick, but it's sure not what I think of as a central hydraulic system.

    What do you do to get the belts to line up on the clutch pump? I tried doing one where the belts were longer than stock and just went around the pump pulley aong with all the other belt drive stuff and it didn't work, could not get traction enough with only 90 deg. belt contact. I had to go with the auxiliary pulley which only comes in a kit with the mounting bracket. That alone is a quick $400. CPW has the parts kit for a central system with that configuration and it comes in at $1800+, but about all the parts are there.

    [Edited by Alan on 11-25-2000 at 12:42 AM]
     
  10. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    I guess I'm just not used to paying retail,most of the time I am able to salvage parts to make what I need .My 1968 oshkosh will have celinoid operated valves off a street sweeper I had,its a $600 dollar valve I got off a non working piece of equipment.So you are proberably right if you are the type that takes your truck to the dealer and says here do this, then $4000 comes quick.I have never been satisfied with the way dealers spend my money so we manufacture all of our specialty stuff ourselves.
     
  11. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    OK,, so you salvage parts, just like I do. One thing I've found with that route is that it can be hell to find replacements if/when something breaks.

    You didn't say how many circuits you are running on that central system though. Or how you got the belts to line up right.
     
  12. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    The pump I put on a C60 and we just put it in where the air belonged that is a one circut system only for the dump box.I had thought of using the pump for the the 10ft western on the front because I hate front mount pumps,but I ended up taking of the bed and turned the truck in to a skidsteer toter. The valve on the oshkosh runs the sander and a four way plow.
     
  13. yorkpaddy

    yorkpaddy Member
    Messages: 32

    how do you get the central hydro to inteface with the plow. from what I have heard the integrated control systems that come with a plow are nicer than what you can fab with your own stuff. But from what i have heard, to use a manufactures control system, you have to use their pump. Fisher has pumps that go in the engine bay from what i have heard. Could you just plumb your central hydro in instead of fisher's pump, and still use fisher controls? With a front mounted pump, I think you could plumb into where the electric pump outputs with your central hydro line and still use the manufacturer's controls. But you would still have to pay for the electric pump
     
  14. CT18fireman

    CT18fireman Banned
    Messages: 2,133

    I was told by GeoffD and later found for myself that most dealers will give you money back if you trade in the electrci power pack for a regular lift cylinder and use a central hydraulic control system. This will only save you money on the plow price. The central hydro price is still the bulk of the expense.
     
  15. SLSNursery

    SLSNursery PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 140

    Muncie system in mine

    Our F-800 has a muncie electric clutch PTO. It has been quite reliable. We only run a plow and dump body. The Sander, although hydraulic has a pony motor (at least for the time being). I cannot comment on the original installation, but I will agree that the belt alignment and access is skewed and inconvenient. The PTO is mounted at the top front of Cummins 5.9, and needs to be muscled in and out of position to get the belts on. You need to remove the fan and shroud. The belts never seem straight but there is no adjustment for the pump angle, and they don't fail due to misalignment. The plow is a Fisher, and it has a regular lift cylinder. The control unit is pretty standard, also non-Fisher. Just a bank of valve controls for up/down, left/right, dump. I like the performance of this setup and would recommend it on any trucks it would fit or a similar model was made for. 2-3k seems reasonable for a quality system. I think I have seen similar muncie PTOs for the smaller trucks.
     
  16. Pelican

    Pelican 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,075

    SLS, are your plow controls cable or electricly operated?
     
  17. SLSNursery

    SLSNursery PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 140

    Cable

    They are cable actuated valves. Old school, but effective and reliable.
     
  18. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    As far as driving the pump, a better system is a PTO off the crank shaft. Cost a little more than belt driven, however its better in the end.

    Geoff
     
  19. Lazer Man

    Lazer Man Senior Member
    from SW Pa.
    Messages: 139

    I have a question on central hydros. Does the rpms of the egine have a effect on the operation of the plow controls? What I am asking is at the end of a push when I slow and the engine rpms fall off does the operation of the plow get sluggish, ie; slow to lift or angle. And does the spredder spinner rpms vary with the rpms of the engine.

    Bob :D
     
  20. CT18fireman

    CT18fireman Banned
    Messages: 2,133

    You will notice a difference in speed but it should not be slow. The old Fisher belt drive pumps were less powerful then a central hydro and still had the power to lift the plow at idle. Most hydro pumps generate good power at idle and just increase speed as engine rpms increase.