1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

Carefully select where your piles go

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Big Nate's Plowing, Feb 27, 2003.

  1. Big Nate's Plowing

    Big Nate's Plowing PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,266


    I don't know what to say on this topic but shouldnt it be common knoledge? :confused:, If I have to pile in spaces I do it far away from the building not in a handicapped space.....:rolleyes: It has ben there sence monday morning and it is thursday now...
  2. firemedic680

    firemedic680 Member
    from BG Ohio
    Messages: 49

    You really have to wonder what is going through there minds when they do this ( ...hmmmm i remeber casey and a flask or 2 , but he wasnt from toledo) . I know almost eveyone in that office , they are getting the shaft big time.
  3. Ohiosnow

    Ohiosnow Senior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 415

    What a stupid snowplow contractor

    Even if a sub did it, the contactor has got to be a idiot :realmad: This is what makes the rest look bad, 1 dumba** gets all the TV time for being stupid & all the good work of clearing up after a big storm isn't worth any TV time now :eek:
  4. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    Apparently not as common knowledge as you'd think. My wife works for the State in a contracted building. They contracted snow plowing and the plow operator PILED the snow on half of the parking spaces. There is plenty of open space at the end of the lot to push snow. Then plowed shut the handicapped ramp with a windrow. No ice control at all, ever. A lady employee slipped and broke her arm. The contractor quick sent over a sand truck. So then they put down a layer about two inches thick so the people are sliding while walking on the "beach".
  5. paul soccodato

    paul soccodato Senior Member
    Messages: 430

    people are idiots, plain and simple
  6. digger242j

    digger242j Senior Member
    Messages: 672

    Handicapped spaces are a problem in that they're often in corners, and it's just natural to push into corners. They're also usually the spots closest to the building. You have to be a little more professional than to put snow there just because it's the easiest spot.

    We went to dinner tonight at a resturant in a strip mall. There's a set of light poles about 10 spaces back from the lane that passes in front of the stores. Beyond that there's probably 200 feet of wide open lot, no poles, or islands, or anything. There are 8 foot high piles surrounding all the light poles, melting and refreezing in the spaces closest to the storefronts. In one pile there's a car with about 6 feet of snow piled around it. Whoever does this place had to work to bring the snow *closer* to the most often used spaces in the lot.

    Gotta wonder what these guys are thinking.....
  7. Crazygator

    Crazygator Member
    from TN
    Messages: 51

    Sad to say, but with most employees these days they dont think at all. Feel they arent paid enough to think. Or its not their problem, let the boss handle it.

    We dont get much snow here, but common sense would tell you not to cover the handicaps, nor spaces close to the store fronts.

    I bet some of these guys will learn, even if its the very hard way too! :D
  8. Mike Fronczak

    Mike Fronczak Member
    Messages: 64

    I defense of all contractor that get real snowfalls, snow get piled eveywhere.
    We had a situation as you are talking about(handicapped spots filling up). No ones falt, lot has curbs 6-8" all around so you can only push initial piles back so far. By mid January we have been at our seasonal average(100 inches). Piles were in handicapped spots, thats when it's time to bring in equipment in, move piles & stack or its time for trucking snow off site.
    When we bid snow plowing it is for just that "plowing with truck mounted plows" not stacking, not relocating, not moving snow seven times to get the pile where it is most convient for client because their to cheap to pay when equipment is needed.
    If we (as smaller contractor) would learn this & stress to our employees we would be somuch further ahead. The larger contractors learned this a long time ago & that why their there, they don't beat the sh** out of their trucks driving them up piles "stacking" when the only one who end up loosing is themselve (more time spent on lot & lots of breakdowns). They tell the customer it this much for stacking & collect more money, not waste it trying to play king of the mountain. If we would all learn these skills we as an industry would be so much further ahead. I looks real "professional" when your truck is hanging off a snowpile stuck.
  9. CMerLand

    CMerLand Senior Member
    Messages: 173


    I have to agree with you although we dont get a quarter of the snow on average that you guys face. However, we did get 20+ inches with the presidents day storm. We picked up a fast food joint just three days prior to to blizzard and the previous contractor barely pushed the snow to the curbs let alone over them to allow for more snows. Thats only part of the reason that we replaced them.

    However, on this lot nobody considered snow plowing in its design. Like most buildings the handicap space is at one end closest to the door and has only a 3 foot wide island. Next to that island is the drive thru exit soooo no way can we pile snow down that end, everything has to go the other way.

    Wellllll the other end of the run is a 2 foot wide island that has parking spaces on both sides of the curb. However, the designers of the layout of the lot also installed garbage dumpster storage bins off to the left of that run so there is no place to push the snow too. So when we piled all that snow, we were able to keep the dumpsters accesible but knew that a backhoe would have to move the ever expanding end of the pile to allow truck access to dump the dumpster. I told them this would be necessary three times but they said nahhh untill trash day when low and behold they couldnt dump the dumpster.

    You can see in the pic that the dumpster gates are open but that you cant get a trash truck in straight to dump them. Im sooo glad I took these pics because we already are being questioned as to why do I have to pay for a backhoe to clear dumpsters WE buried???? In a normal storm you can swing the majority of the snow out of the area minimizing the pile but not when theres 20 some inches and drifts on the ground.

    Big storms or frequent storms require backhoes for stacking moving or hauling. We tell our clients we will do our best to keep spots open butttt the snow has to go someplace.


  10. CMerLand

    CMerLand Senior Member
    Messages: 173

    Now for the my favorite picture of how the contractor who plowed my wifes work parking lot handled the dumpster situation. He reallly thought this one through. LOL:) :) :)

  11. Ohiosnow

    Ohiosnow Senior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 415


    "I defense of all contractor that get real snowfalls, snow get piled eveywhere.
    We had a situation as you are talking about(handicapped spots filling up). No ones falt":nono:


    Sorry, No ones Fault:rolleyes: You got to be kidding :( WE are professionals all it takes is planning, as to where snow should & can't be piled. A competent snowplow contractor goes over each lot with subs at the begining of the season & shows where & where not to pile snow.

    I've plowed for 28 yrs. & would kick any subs a$$ plus dock him pay for the removal of piles in a handicapped parking area. There are no real excuses for being stupid & lazy.

    And as for real snow fall amounts we've had many years of 80" to 100" of snow. And for that matter the more snow the more you should be used to it & know you need to plan ahead.

    Sorry but just one last time There is No excuse !!! if there is no room for the snow then it has to be bid with snow removal. And if the account doesn't want to pay for the extra then tell them that you need to walk away from the job. You will look & be a professional snowplow contractor :waving: & not some dumba$$ on TV getting reamed for doing somethimg just to make $$$
  12. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    In case there is any doubt, keeping the handicapped ramp open and readily accessible by a person in a wheelchair is a Federal mandate. It is not optional. The owner/operator of the establishment will be held responsible if the ramp is blocked by even the smallest amount of snow or ice. He hired you to clear the area, so you will be named in a lawsuit. Make no mistake, these lawsuits are being aggressively pursued by interested parties.
  13. Big Nate's Plowing

    Big Nate's Plowing PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,266

    well it was finaly moved on thursday night, to my suprize it was one of the larger Lawn & Landscape outfits in Toledo. I will agree that it has to go somewhere but we are running out of room, we have had almost 60" and our average is 35".

  14. kipcom

    kipcom Senior Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 455

    WOW :) such responses deserve a BIG round of applause:waving: My wonderful wife suffers from MS and as a professional snow plowing contractor & firefighter I just naturally pay more attention to clearing away snow from handicapped parking spaces & FIRE HYDRANTS. Anyone ever go on a working fire and cant find the F*%$ing hydrant because some DUMB@#$ plowed it under 2' of snow !!!! Thanks DOT plows.. SOrry :eek: was venting a little. Common sense is the best gift god gave everyone of us, use it wisely and be safe.

    Kip 2001 Dodge 1500 / BOSS 7.5' SD & a little snowblower:D

  15. digger242j

    digger242j Senior Member
    Messages: 672

    Which raises another point--I always make sure to back into those spaces and give them their own dose of salt. There's no way for you to know what condition qualifies an individual to use the hadicapped space and even the tiniest patch of ice could prove to be a *very* bad thing.
  16. Mike Fronczak

    Mike Fronczak Member
    Messages: 64

    Ohiosnow, I think you misunderstood my post. We DO NOT INTENTIONALLY FILL IN HANDICAPPED SPOTS. However we have had 130 inches thus far to date(aprox) & very few melts downs (we went 2 months with none). Snow accumulates, ask any large snow firm how much removal/stacking they do on commercial lots.
    To say I am not professional because spots get filled in is crazy. Snow is a full time job for myself & one fulltime employee + two part time guys, all winter long, I don't know if is for you or not. Ask John Allin, or any large contractor how many times his crews have removed snow of stacked this year, is he or they not a professionals. Snow stacking/removal is a good additional revenue source if not asked to be included in intial price(I've never seen it).
    As far as including Removal in bid, ARE YOU NUTS, you bid as per spec, just like everyone else, or you won't get any work. We do include prices for loader work in a snowplowing bid, they area additional items in bids.
  17. Bun Hauler

    Bun Hauler Junior Member
    Messages: 6

    I deliver buns to a major fast food resturant so during the winter I get to see a lot of different lots that have been plowed. This past week I was down in the DC area went to 18 different stores all the lots were plowed poorly. It looked like whoever plowed it just drove around the stores in circles with there plow down.
    And a couple of them had there snow stacked at the edge of the entrance. Someone mentioned the desingers of the lot didn't think about snow removal, you should try to get a tractor trailer on some of these lots without snow and when there is snow you have to drag the trailer tandems through a 4 or 5 foot pile of snow just to get on or off of the lot Bun Hauler
  18. digger242j

    digger242j Senior Member
    Messages: 672

    If it's a chain of restaurants it's conceivable that you were following the same guy to all 18 stores. At least they were all treated equally... :rolleyes:
  19. Ohiosnow

    Ohiosnow Senior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 415

    Mike Fronczak

    I think you didn't understand what I stated :( There is NO reason to pile snow in a handicapped parking space "INTENTIONALLY" or not.

    As for
    "Snow accumulates, ask any large snow firm how much removal/stacking they do on commercial lots.
    To say I am not professional because spots get filled in is crazy."

    Removel/stacking almost all of us have to do this in some cases but not in HANDICAPPED SPACES Do you get what I'm saying now NO piles in HANDICAPPED SPACES :rolleyes:

    "So To say I am not professional because spots get filled in is crazy"


    And yes I have many FULL TIME Contracts & I've made many Millions over the years plowing snow.
  20. Mike Fronczak

    Mike Fronczak Member
    Messages: 64

    You still misunderstood. Nowhere in my post does it say we intentionally piled snow in handicapped spots, piles originated in areas behind spots, and worked there way out we simply did not move the snow move than 1 time to pile it up, thus allowing snow to flow into spot. Thus need for stacking.