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cant find help for e-47

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Pickering snow removal, Jan 20, 2003.

  1. Pickering snow removal

    Pickering snow removal Senior Member
    Messages: 151

    Heres my problem i have looked at all the e-47 posts and searched but no luck . Chuck was hoping you could shed some light on this problem here we go last march i put a new E-47 unit on one of my trucks the old unit had broken motor bolts lots of leaks and felt replacing the whole unit was a better way to go.
    The problem occurs after truck has set outside or has of late even inside when you go to raise the plow it makes what sounds like a metal to metal sound the pump is very slow to come up, once i manage to get it up then drop it back down it works ok, I have drained the oil and cleaned the filters twice both times the meyer low temp blue oil has been grey when changing. I called my dealer today 50miles away the pump is still under warr til march, He said have to have the whole truck there in order to perform any type of meyers warr, Didnt require the whole truck when i bought it last year from there parts dept, Is there something simple here iam missing alittle concerned has to the grey color both times i have changed the oil , Once again iam sorry for posting another e-47 question but i just couldnt find anything that matched this condition, Please also forgive my bad pen and spelling thank you
  2. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    Sounds like the pump may be eating itself,causing the greyish fluid.Did you flush it completely ?

    Could it be something else like a battery connection,or bad ground ? I know that wouldn't explain the dirty fluid,but it can cause the plow to be hard to raise the first time you go to use it.
  3. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    The first question that comes to mind..... did you drain the fluid in the angle cylinders, and flush them with kerosene when you installed the new pump?

    If not, the old fluid got mixed with the new.

    The 2 times you have changed the fluid in the new pump, did you again flush the angle cylinders and replace the fluid in them?

    The greyish color sounds like it could be moisture in the system. Is the fluid a "milky" grey color?

    The moisture can be freezing up on you. Once the pump "grinds" the ice, (and builds pressure) then the fluid can move. The metal on metal sound may be the fluid iced up, not getting to the pump right away?

    IF I was to replace a pump, I would also replace the angle hoses, and couplers, along with flushing the angle cylinders.

    NOT flushing the cylinders would be like changing you truck's motor oil, and not changing the oil filter (leaving about a quart of dirty oil to mix with the new).

    Using the old hoses, and not flushing the cylinders would cause residue and sediment (from your "old leaky" pump) to mix with the new clean hydraulic fluid.

    Add to this you said the old unit "had lots of leaks", which is a sure way to allow moisture into the system.

    With the new pump, all those leaks should have been repaired when the pump was installed.

    When you changed the hydraulic fluid twice, did you find the filter screens plugged up with metal particles?

    There is a paste that is used to check in ground gasoline tanks, and heating oil tanks for water. The paste is green, and turns color if there is water in the oil or gas. I would get some, drain the fluid, and "stick it" with a pencil coated with the paste. You will know right away if there is moisture in the oil.

    Stop by your local gas station where you fill up, and ask them to smear some paste on a pencil for you. You might want to bring the oil fluid in a coffee can or jar with you to test it right there.

    Once you rule out moisture, then you can go deeper from there.

    How are the angle ram pistons?

    Are they pitted at all?

    Do they leak?

    The grey could be packing material from the angle rams, if the piston surfaces are rough..... But I would rule out moisture first.

    Hope it helps.

  4. BRL

    BRL PlowSite.com - Veteran
    Messages: 1,277

    Ditto Chuck's post!!
  5. Pickering snow removal

    Pickering snow removal Senior Member
    Messages: 151

    thanks chuck smith and crew

    Read your response i think most guys would say ya did that but iam not gonna set here and tell you that, in fact very honestly i didnt flush the cylinders , has far has there condtion they were replaced, in 01 i feel pretty stuipd right know been up all night and know tomarrow morning gonna start from the begining , your comments make perfect sense I was quick to blame the grey fluid on pump unit , I do have to say iam gonna pick up a lift ram seal in the morning has well it has started leaking in the last couple of runs, seems kinda premature for this new of a unit but i suppose.

    Also has far has the screens are concerned i dont see metal the more i look at the old stuff i would say water contam guess i had maybe started thinking i didnt break the pump in correctly if that is poss and the grey color was from new internal parts branishing

    I will let you know if this fixes it thanks to everyone who replyed and chuck thank you for this wonderful site full of opinion and ideas thats what makes this country so great

    regards fred
  6. wmsland

    wmsland Junior Member
    from NE Ohio
    Messages: 16

    I just had the same problem with my E-47. The angle rams were pitted and water was getting in that way. Replaced the rams, hoses and coulpers. It was also leaking out of the top by the lift ram and ended up rebuilding the piston assembly. Discovered that the wipe seal around the ram had been installed upside down by someone who worked on it last year and water was also getting in that way. After I was done with all of the rebuilding I flushed the whole system out several times. This morning it was around 10 degrees out and the plow worked like new.
  7. Pickering snow removal

    Pickering snow removal Senior Member
    Messages: 151

    problem continues

    Hello chuck, i went threw and started from scratch this morning drained all fluid , from pump, removed both filters and let pump drain for a good hour, removed cylinders and flushed them on the bench, even though the hoses were new in 01 same as cylinders i took two new ones out of stock, replaced quick couplings has well. Refilled system verifyed correct level, let truck set outside for about 8hrs today its been about 5degrees for a high today , same grinding grunting noise didnt think the blade was gonna even lift it rasied about 6inches dropped it back down raised it again this time it came up normal. Just has me pulling my hair
    forgot to mention the oil i drained out this morning was not has discolored looked more like faded blue guess iam more frustrated then anything has like my orginal post i opted to spend 875.00 to avoid this problem and hassle , The thing that bothers me is the dealer i purchased it from says they never have had a problem like this one makes me feel real warm inside to take the whole truck over to them , You and the group here are the only logical ideas i have heard and of course would be open to try anything else you might be able to muster for me to try ,

    once again iam greatful for your time and help on this matter

    regards fred

    CARDOCTOR PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,304


  9. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    I think it may be worthwhile to take the whole unit,or the truck to the place you bought it from,and have them open the pump up.Sounds like the pump may be eating itself up internally.Hopefully they will replace or repair it for you under warranty
  10. Pickering snow removal

    Pickering snow removal Senior Member
    Messages: 151

    Chris , i agree with what your saying because the noise does in fact sound like metal, Second i wish they would take just the pump unit but say they need the whole truck, which due to there location and my work schedule is a big hassle, plus there response of never hearing of this problem kinda bothers me i have worked for a Gm dealer for 22yrs i never tell a cust that i have never heard of there problem trust me deep inside i might not have but i have a great support element with g.m and tech support , I would hope meyers has this same kinda support to there dealers .

    All this said i guess i should of just bought the pump the part that has the motor housing has my orginal had broken bolts in both sets, guess because they wanted something like 250.00 for just that part and some of the other seals were leaking i opted to go with the whole unit which i thought would be the easy way out haha.

    The other suggestion about trying another meyer plow or unit is not a option this is the only meyer unit i have and will be honest the only one ill ever own , i know meyer works good for some and thats great not putting them down , Just for me with the size operation i have western unimounts have been my choice knock on wood i have never had a western with morning sickness.

    And on the last suggestion atf does not have the same chemical makeup of plow oil and i know in a pinch it can be used but i personally elect to stock a case of western and a case of meyer it makes for less troubles.

    regards fred
  11. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    I doubt switching to ATF will cure your problem.

    Did you double check the battery connections,solenoid,and wiring to the motor ?

    It just might be a connection problem,or bad solenoid,and what you are hearing is the motor struggling to turn the cold pump without enough voltage.Once you run it up and down once,the connection heats up and makes good contact and the problem goes away.You've got nothing to lose.
  12. Pickering snow removal

    Pickering snow removal Senior Member
    Messages: 151

    Chris has far has the electrical end of it, ihave beefed this whole truck up to begin with iam running , 4gage cables to the pump motor and pump ground the sol is new,

    Last year in the start of the season installed a second battery and had a alt built to 95amp output ,ford case size restricts the amp limit.

    guess iam running out of ideas i sure am thankful for your help and chuck smiths , i see you post replys to alot of guys and that is great looks like we both wrench and plow, So you see for me having to work on a piece of my own equipment this lomng cost me money in all areas I too lease alot of my trucks and i have heard you say many times all the bennys to doing it this way and just want to say i agree 100% on why we do it. For me the biggest reason is iam under a hood all day dont want to be uness under my own i know you will know what iam talking about .

    regards fred
  13. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    I know what you mean.I run a repair shop all day,and the plow operations all night.I don't have to drive a truck anymore,but I enjoy it,and get bored sitting in the office all the time.Keeps me in touch with the guys too.I thing the repair business and snow plowing go hand in hand,as it saves us huge $$$ to be able to fabricate,maintain and repair our own (and subs) equipment,especially in the middle of a storm.Downtime is big $$$ lost.

    What about water in the motor,freezing up when cold,then breaks free first time you use it ? Just a guess,don't know what else.

    I wish I could be of more help,but I think going after warranty on the unit would be the best thing now,I think you have eliminated everything else.

    It seems as if this is your only meyer plow ? All the others are Westerns.Might want to look at changing this one over to Western,so you will have more spare parts available,and other plows\trucks to test with if you have a problem.Not knocking the Meyers,just might suit your fleet better.
  14. wmsland

    wmsland Junior Member
    from NE Ohio
    Messages: 16

    It sounds like you still have some water in the system and it is freezing up around the strainer in the reservoir and restricting the flow of fluid. The grinding sound could also be the piston assembly, mine was making the same noise until I rebuilt it now it's fine. It might be worth your time to take the reservoir apart and rebuild the whole assembly that way you can get the inside a lot cleaner than you can from flushing it out. I was amazed at how much junk was in there. It's about an hour and a half job. Also try adding about 1/2 ounce of fresh dry gas to your fluid when you refill it. Like I said before I just went through the same exact problems.
  15. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    what's the differ between a e-47 and a e-60
  16. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Nothing like digging up an old one PJ. ;)