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Bulk UK salt?

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by shovelman, Feb 1, 2010.

  1. shovelman

    shovelman Member
    Messages: 53

    Is the brown uk salt as good as the morton white rock salt ? the price difference has me looking at going with it . Curious if it melts off as fast an clean as white salt? Does it leave more "dirt" after the melt ? just have never used it because i have very picky clients
     
  2. mullis56

    mullis56 Senior Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 824

    We got 150 tons last year and it will be our last 150 tons. Ask the 2 loads we had that were 21 and 22 tons respectifully back in early Dec., we refused them! Take it for what it is worth...
     
  3. lilweeds

    lilweeds PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,178

    It melts snow just the same. I did find that it was much finer though and packed down. The brown is just the impurities in the salt and does not affect it's ability to melt salt.
     
  4. Who are getting it from. We had a load last year and this year and we love it. Ya it does make the truck look brown but its a salt truck just wash it. Its a good mix of small and big.
     
  5. Westhardt Corp.

    Westhardt Corp. Senior Member
    Messages: 845

    Used it last year--melts fine, but compacts in v-boxes something fierce, though. If you can get it to the ground, you'll be ok...
     
  6. shovelman

    shovelman Member
    Messages: 53

    is it worth the hassel sounds like it get hard in the v box mortans costs me 98 a ton picked up but can get uk for 75 a ton delivered just wondering if one uses more per app. then with white salt
     
  7. Westhardt Corp.

    Westhardt Corp. Senior Member
    Messages: 845

    Ask yourself this--"what is my time worth in the middle of an event?"

    :D
     
  8. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    Halite from Great Britain

    The Halite mined at the Windsford Rock Salt Mine is a 90 percent pure rock salt.

    The brown coloring in the Halite from the Windsford Rock Salt Mine is what is named Keuper Marl which is a layer of clay from the Late Triassic Period(Keuper Period) which was laid down upon the salt deposit.

    The Keuper Marl is found in Cheshire, Devon, Worcestershire and Northern Yorkshire.

    The Windsford Salt Mine is owned and operated by Salt Union which is a Coastal Minerals

    Company.


    The other halite mine is located in Cleveland county



    Salt is mined in Ireland at the Kilroot Salt Mine near Kerrickfergus.

    The mine began operation in 1965 and produced 14,500 tons in its first year of production,

    and produces 500,000 tons per year.

    The Cleveland Potash mines Halite and Potash from under the Yorshire Moors and The North Sea.


    The Cleveland mine produces one million tons of Potash and five hundred thousand tons of Halite.

    A few web sites to viist.

    www.irishsaltmining.com
    www.clevelandpotash.co.uk
    www.british-salt.co.uk
    www.saltunion.com



    I am sorry if my posting the algebra formula for determining the volume of a trapezoid and a rectangle to determine the struck volume of the salt spreader hopper in question started an argument.

    :blush2:
     

    Attached Files:

  9. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,699

    Yeah......but what's its' moisture content Mr. Smartypants???? :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2010
  10. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    British Halite

    As I must assume this is directed at me apparently;


    Halite, evaporated and solar salt are HYGROSCOPIC they attract moisture they do not absorb it.
     
  11. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    British Halite containing Keuper Marl

    If you mix in a bit of gypsum with the salt it will help to dissolve the Kueper Marl clay
    (gypsum dissolves clay) which occurs at the top/horizon of the salt seam deposit and
    you should have no problems possibly 100 pounds per semi load mixed well with a bit
    more thrown in the spreader during loading.:nod


    I apologise to anyone I may have offended regarding my posting as I only placed it here
    for the information it contained as I thought it would clear up any confusion regarding the
    Halite being imported to the United States from Great Britain.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2010
  12. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,699

    That I understand...but why is it, that the claim was 9%+/- for the UK brown, versus 2-3% for the brown that came from Peru?

    Are people just talking out of their you know whats???

    Not messin with ya......I love your posts'.:nod:
     
  13. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    Halite

    Good evening,


    The problem with any testing for mouisture is it simply a base line figure as quite often samples are dropped off after the shift is over in a bin near the time shanty and picked up the next day for all three shifts.

    The salt is grabbed with a sampling bucket while the belts are operating at three times during the shift as it was in our case and at the end of the day the salt for all three samples was dumped through a sample splitter to obtain a small amount to pack for the testing lab from the three sampling times.

    The salt mined in Great Britain and Ireland is mined with conventional room and pillar mining equipment. The Cleveland mine also mines a layer of naturally occuring potash fertilizer(usually overlying the salt bed) using continuos miners of the drum type to extract both the Potash and Halite this eliminates the need for drilling and blasting of the salt or potash and reducing the need for primary crushing near the mine face as is the standard operating procedure allowng the product to be screened milled and then hoisted to the surface.

    The sample may have been properly packed and sealed with duct tape instead of a sealed container to eliminate and moisture entering the sample(they hope)
    The salt mined using blasting for breakage has been violently broken with massive explosive force.
    =====================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================
    FYI any explosive is not really explosive- the explosion you see or hear or feel is a huge supersonic fire started by the blasting caps and boosters used to initiate the blasting cap which creates the fire which consumes the blasting agent which creates the energy to break the rock salt during the blasting phase.

    The relief kerf /slot cut along the floor line of the mine face allows the explose to work more efficiently by breaking the floor line of blast holes above the relief slot and then procees upward to the next line of holes and then further up until it reaches the drill holes along the roof line as the last amount of salt to be blasted.

    The salt may or may not be broken uniformly to be mucked out later and broken to the minus six inch size prior to being conveyed to a screening plant and a surge pile to be transported to the surface for further processing if needed for bagging as well.

    An inproved method of stress relief uses a set of three large diameter augers which are used to bore the stress relief slots in the center of them in the center of the mine face and half way between the roof line and floor.

    The auger drill (in our method was employed to drill 12 inch diameter stress relief holes 24 feet deep in two passes) to equal the required amount of stress relief of an undercutter
    bar used to cut a kerf 24 feet deep and as wide as needed in the mine face-which is the actual tunnels width.

    The number of drill holes is more than doubled versus the conventional number drilled for a mine face using an undercutter for stress relief.

    Which uses more blasting agent and blasting caps to blast twice the tonnage as is normally done.

    This also creates more dust from thr actual act of blasting because of the AMFO blasting agents force during detonation and the resulting fire and expansion of the gasses created by the blasting caps.

    The switch to the AMFO blasting prills at our mine was an economic one where the price was $15.00 per ton versus dynamite for blasting in 1978. The blasting fumes are much more deadly because of the fertilizer base prills/beads and the fule oil which is used to coat the prills and act as an additional excellerant during the blasting phase which generates more energy to break the ore into smaller sizes versus dynamite or water gell explosives in stick form.

    The horizonatlly drilled holes in the salt face are normally not packed with stemming as the drill holes are bottom primed. The lack of stemming in the open end of the hole allows some of the explosive energy is lost and wasted during the explosives detonation and fire during the expansion of the explosive gasses and breakge of ore at the mine face.

    Which consumes the blasting agent creating force to exands and grow in size until the explosive agent is consumed during the explosive/fire phase of blasting while breaking the ore surrounding the individual blast hole.

    =====================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

    continued-
    mines are near sea level and the added moisture of the sea air will have an effect during the year as well

    In our case it was triple wall paper bags/with plastic separators or simple triple wall paper bags of heavy thickness paper stock. The samples were picked up the following morning and then tested for saline content by liquefying a small amount and then using a saline refractometer to test its salinity.

    The britsh salt samples are assayed the same way or at the loading dock prior to loading a certain tonnage or an average for a time period of 30 days.


    The greatest amount of salt mined in Chile or Peru is solar salt except where it is deeped mined in Columbia.


    The solar salt extracted from deep dry salt lake beds thousands of feet thick in the Andes Mountains or on solar salt pans.


    The salt lake being mined in this area is bench mined due to its thickness and volume of salt and can be white clear or brown depending upon where the salt is blasted from in the open pit created in the lake bed.

    The salt is reclaimed transported, washed in a salt water rinse, screened and broken and shipped to an ocean berth by rail and locally as well.


    About the salt in Chile and north africa -some solar salt is sometimes mined with out being fully crystallized over a longer period of time( this is usually done over a five year period which explains why the solar salt is brown some times (harvested too early for sale)

    Please dont blame the salt producer as the salt demand is what is forcing them to harvest salt early because the highly crystalized salt has been harvested and the smaller salt producer does not have enough land area(owned or leased) for adequate production of crystalized solar salt products.



    The solar salt you use begins as either warm or cold ocean water which is pumped into settling ponds and allowed to clear and let the solids and any marine life to drop out of the salt water.

    The solar salt is then moved to concentrating ponds where the salt is allowed to evaporate and as a result creates the saline concentration required prior to pumping it to the final crystallizing ponds where the salt becomes even more contrated and as a result becomes more densein layering eliminating the the typically layers of salt -except in the case of the dry lake beds of Andean solar salt where the salt water covered and evaporated many man times during the time the salt beds were laid down created salt depths many thousands of feet thick. The Andes Mountains grew in altitude after the salt lake was fully filled with dry salt there dried out due to the sunshine and dry air as well as the increased elevation and thin air.


    The salt in some chilean mining areas is drier due tot he altitude and the thin air and the hotter sunshine which dries salt quickly.


    The majority of salt iun Chile is mined by SPL International Salt .:):cool:
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2010
  14. kimber

    kimber Senior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 140

    I've had a lot of experience with the brown UK salt. I brought some in last year to Ashtabula. I sold most of it last year and about 8000 tons this year.

    Short answer (Leon is a freakin genius on this topic) is the UK salt came in at 4% and currently has about 2.5% moisture. The Peruvian is much lower than that...say 1-1.5% moisture.

    Hope this helps.
     
  15. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,699

    Thank you for de-coding this kimber :drinkup:.....there was a noticeable difference between the two browns.

    And of course, leon is a freaking genius when it comes to intricate, detailed salt info.


    I'd like to party with him at least once......damn curious to know the man!


    ::::I wonder if he likes Zeppelin::::