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Bobcat Starter Won't Turn When Machine Is Cold.

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment' started by Philbilly2, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,550

    I have a 2001 Bobcat 863G with the Dutez Air Cooled Diesel.

    In the winter, if it gets below about 15 degrees outside, when you turn the key to start, nothing happens.



    Now here is what I have eliminated.


    Machine has a new battery last winter. Did this starting thing before, still does it now.

    Machine has new alternator last summer. Did this starting thing before, still does it now.

    I thought maybe it was a low battery. It still does this even when hooked up to a running tandem dump truck with multiple batterys.

    If I could plug it in, it would eliminate this entire problem. But it sits on a parking lot and there is not a chance for that.



    The only what to get it to start is to get in the cab, turn the key to on to let the plugs count down, and stick a jumper cable from the truck directly to the starter solinoid. If you turn the starter over a few times from the solinoid, you can then go into the cab and use the key again.

    I know the responce is going to be you need a new starter. The problem is that it works flawlessly over 15 degrees.


    Has anyone had this problem with their machine?
     
  2. Kickin Grass

    Kickin Grass Member
    Messages: 39

    Before I traded in my 863 for a new T-320 I had that problem. I pulled the starter an took it down to one of the old guys in town that rebuilt starters. It had some junk built up in it. Just enough to cause a problem when it got cold out side. Thats what my problem was. Hope it helps.
     
  3. White Gardens

    White Gardens 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,665

    You could also have a ground/power wire issue also. Though it might start OK in normal weather, the contacts could be bad enough that it's not drawing enough amps to kick it over efficiently in the cold.

    Only other option if everything is good is to see if there is a gear reduction starter available for your machine.


    ......
     
  4. WIPensFan

    WIPensFan PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,485

    If a new starter would fix this problem, I don't see why you wouldn't just do that. I realize it will cost $$, but if you rely on this machine it would be worth it.
     
  5. Grassman09

    Grassman09 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,806

    Have a similar issue with my 2011 Cat 99.9% of the time it will start no problem just once in a blue moon there is this thud sound like it wants to kick over. Cycle the key again and it fires right up. Not sure if its done this to me in summer too. Cat looked at it couldn't find anything.
     
  6. NICHOLS LANDSCA

    NICHOLS LANDSCA PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,302

    When you are having an issue you could try and heat the starter with a propane torch and see what happens. I'd say it's the starter, you could try taking it apart and cleaning it yourself
     
  7. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,550

    you can't just trow parts at a problem. I like to find out what the problem is. Is it actually the starter? or is there a fuseable link? a realy that is bad? could it be the key switch? faulty wiring?

    There is a lot more to some things that don't work than just throwing parts at it.
     
  8. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,550

    that is not a bad idea

    Thanks, that will get it down to the starter for sure.
     
  9. NICHOLS LANDSCA

    NICHOLS LANDSCA PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,302

    Does the volt gauge drop when you try to start it? It would be a two person job but you could check to see if you are getting voltage to the starter when you hit the key. You know every time you'll have someone there to check, it will start. Probably the solenoid and not the whole starter
     
  10. WIPensFan

    WIPensFan PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,485

    Whatever, hope you finger it out.
     
  11. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,550

    sorry dude. I didn't mean to be a d*ck. I was a little fired up when I posted.
     
  12. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,550

    When you key the starter, all the lights and gauges go off. No voltage gauge. Fuel and Temp only. Rest of machine is idiot lights.

    Yeah, the problem is I never have two guys there when it does this. It is always 1 guy trying to salt.

    If I could get it to do it in the middle of summer, it would be fixed, but I can never produce the problem when it is not 0 degrees and blowing snow in the middle of a parking lots. :realmad:
     
  13. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,045

    I know you don't want to throw parts at the problem but it sounds like the solenoid on the starter is done. When it gets cold they seem to act funny. I'm assuming you've cleaned the all the connections running from the frame to battery to starter. If that doesn't work rebuild the starter.
     
  14. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,924

    hey phil,,,reading this,thought i would throw my ,02 in there as i have just done this with some of our 960 mustangs.
    same issues,,COLD turn key and starter WOMP WOMP WOMP click.......
    but ours worked with a jump tho.

    so a couple of things to ck,,,the STARTING voltage. dont know if you have a batt/alt tester but thats what we have.
    the main pwr and gnd wires. the gnd wire was run to the frame not the block,,,and the wire was a little small. if you have a remote jumper starter,,you could do this on your own fyi.
    and tripple ck your battery/connections.
    i might have to agree with the starter going bad as well. if all ckes out,,,put the farm on starter.
     
  15. Kickin Grass

    Kickin Grass Member
    Messages: 39

    As I posted before. The starter has some crap in it. Like dirt, oil. When it is cold it slows it down and draws allot of amps. Don't you guys have a place that rebuild starters while you wait. Just needs cleaned up.
     
  16. WIPensFan

    WIPensFan PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,485

    No problem Philbilly2, I understand these things can be frustrating.
     
  17. dfd9

    dfd9 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,475

    These all seem so logical. :dizzy:

    You already threw a bunch of parts at it, and there is only one part remaining that is causing your problem as at least 3 people have told you.

    Betcha a cheesesteak you replace the starter and you won't have this happen again.

    Probably won't see 15* this winter again, either. lol
     
  18. brianbrich1

    brianbrich1 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,082

    Just changed the starter on my new holland skid for the same reasons. In the cold starter acts up. New starter no probleams now
     
  19. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,550

    The parts that I put on it were needed items. Not parts thrown at an unknown problem. The machine needed a new battery before it because a parking lot anchor, and the alternator when out in the summer. Lights slowly went away one night while loading trucks out. Neither of those were to fix this starting problem.

    I believe everyone that it is the starter. I also think that it is the starter. I just wanted to check and see if there was somthing else that it could be. Commonly the simple stuff is not what often causes the problem.
     
  20. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,550

    Right. My starter does not turn. No WOMP, WOMP, WOMP, click for me. It does not try to turn, it does not click. It is like there is no voltage making it to the starter. You have to apply voltage directley to the solinoid on the starter and turn it over a few times with a jumper cable. Once you do that, you can go in the cab and it will start as normal with the key. Even without jumper cables hooked to the battery.

    I like the check the battery connections reccomondations. I laugh at how many times I tell guys to check there grounds and when I have a problem, I forget all about what I know and go stright to how can I bypass this stuff so I can get going. Yep, I've checked, cleaned, greased, and tighened the sh*t out of every connection between the battery and starter.

    I am just going to grab a new starter before next season and put it in the machine. I will have this one cleaned and keep it as a spare in the service truck incase one of the starters goes out in one of the machines. Hell, I keep spare alternators in the service truck, why not starters too?