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Black Oil, any Boss dealers in this forum?

Discussion in 'Boss Plows Discussion' started by Alaska Boss, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. Alaska Boss

    Alaska Boss PlowSite.com Addict
    from Alaska
    Messages: 1,951

    Well, about a month ago, I had the 2nd hydraulic pump go out on my Boss 9.2' V-blade in as many years. Last year, while the plow was still under warrantee, it went out & when I went to pick it up, the dealer here in Alaska almost didn't cover it, because they said my hydraulic fluid was completely black, & the pump went out because I wasn't changing my fluid enough. But when I showed them that THEY had just changed it 3 weeks earlier, they covered it under warrantee, but no effort or investigating was done to determine why my oil was black after just a couple weeks, & so they just put on a new pump & sent me on my way. So now,... almost to the day, a year later, it went out again, with black oil again in only a month of usage, but this time it's my nickel,.. ($833 !!! :eek: ) Well, I'm convinced that whatever caused the first pump to fail, has caused the second one to fail too, & that it should have been investigated & fixed while still under warrantee,.. dealer says it was fixed,... if my oil is black again, it's just that I don't change it enough. So, I called the Boss factory, & talked to a tech there, & he agreed with me & sent me,... free of charge, a brand-new complete power unit,... motor-pump-reservoir,.. right to my door, from that one phone call, after my warrantee has expired !! ( I think this says a lot about the folks at Boss,.. wanting happy campers & wanting them treated right even if the dealers won't sometimes). The tech at Boss said that the pumps in Boss plows should outlast the plow itself, & that having 2 go out in the same plow like this is almost un-heard of.. as is black oil. He told me the only things he could think of that would cause this, is that the fluid is either burnt, or being contaminated within the system itself somehow, (This plow has never leaked a drop of fluid), & his best guess would be that the packing inside one or both of the Smartlock angle cylinders is disintegrating, or coming apart for whatever reason. (The lift cylinder only has O-rings, no packing he said). So,... I would like to ask several questions to all the Boss owners out there... 1) Has anyone ever had their fluid turn black after only several weeks of usage, & if so, did you discover what caused it? 2) Has anyone out there ever re-built one of these new Smartlock angle cylinders on the newer RT-3 V-blade plows? The Boss dealer here won't do it,... they said they've tried,... it never works out or lasts,... so now whenever they have an issue with a Smartlock cylinder, they trash it & sell you a new one, well over $600/ea. But they did have 2 re-build kits, which consists of 2 seals, 2 O-rings, & the spacer/packing, for $77/ea,... (is this a rip-off or what??) 3) Are there any Boss dealers on this forum, or does anyone have a dealer that can beat these prices,... pumps @ $833,.. Smartlocks @ $640,.. etc?? Sorry for the long post, but I hate being taken for a ride by a dealer that doesn't care to begin with. Thanks for any & all info :salute:
     
  2. Hammer

    Hammer Junior Member
    Messages: 26

    Smartlock Angle Cylinder Price

    $325.00 each

    United Truck Body
    218-729-6000

    As for the black oil issue, the packings are coming apart in the cylinders. (Yes there are packings in the cylinders) Check the screens in the manifold and see if you notice fibers accumulating there. That would be why the pump fails. There are screens inside the pump resevoir too...
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2006
  3. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,462

    Black oil?? never.. are they using the dark blue low temp hydro fluid?
    Even if the packing went bad it would not turn the fluid black.
    If chunks were coning off of the packing the rams would be leaking and there would be sh!t in the filter.
    Sorry, to hear about your problems you would think the warranty would cover it?
    There is no screen in the res on a boss. There is a plug labeled SCREEN on the pump body ( between the motor and res) and one on the valve body.

    I'm sure that you are going to completely drain and clean out you system before you install your new pump..
    Good Luck..
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2006
  4. Alaska Boss

    Alaska Boss PlowSite.com Addict
    from Alaska
    Messages: 1,951


    The fluid I'm using is a clear/red color,... (HD aircraft hydraulic fluid,.. MIL-H-5606A,.. & rated to -40°) Yes, I completely drained & flushed the system as best I could. But there ARE screens in the reservoir,.. there's a screen on both the pickup & return tubes. (See pictures) And there are also screens on each of the 7 valves in the valve body too. (7 valves only on a V-blade). But the guys at the Boss factory were right... it was the packing in the Smartlock cylinders!! And because the packing is black, it would turn the fluid black too,... with thousands of microscopic particles floating around all thru the system. The pickup tube screen in the reservoir was plugged with black packing material, and there was a big glob of it laying in the bottom of the tank that wouldn't even drain out !! Even as bad as they were, they never leaked & always performed properly. But the $64,000 question now is... what caused the packing to disintegrate/come apart in the first place?? And if I rebuild these things, (which I did), what's to say that it won't happen again & take another $800 pump out with it ?? I took pictures of everything to document what happened, so if this ever happens to anyone else, they can know what to do. Thanks for your comments,...
     
  5. Alaska Boss

    Alaska Boss PlowSite.com Addict
    from Alaska
    Messages: 1,951

    ooops... forgot the pictures,...

    reservoir screens (2).JPG

    Looking inside the reservoir (2).JPG

    Smartlock apart (2).JPG

    Close-up of the V-packing (2).JPG
     
  6. Alaska Boss

    Alaska Boss PlowSite.com Addict
    from Alaska
    Messages: 1,951


    Wow,.. that's amazing... half price !!! I knew we were getting ripped off up here.. but I didn't expect it to be HALF. Are you a dealer yourself? Just wondering about price parts on other things too... I'll defintely give them a call. By the way,.. what's your idea as to why the packing comes apart?? Just wondering if I should persue this as a warranty situation that was never taken care of properly from the beginning. Thanks !! :salute:
     
  7. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Just throwing somethings out when the dealer did the job maybe did they put motor oil in?
    After you're done with this job take a sample of the fluid every week or after each plow and check it.

    Let us know.
     
  8. Dwan

    Dwan Senior Member
    Messages: 879

    AK Boss,
    Truck Weld did me good on the price for my sander but quoted me $360 for the 9.2 wings, then when they arived the bill was $720. Nice to know to always check the prices on everything you buy.

    Did the packing fail on both cylinders?
    How is your rebuild cylinder holding up, any new sign of ware?
    I does not look like ware from your pictures but looks like something ate them. Like maybe they were not compatable with the fluid.
     
  9. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,462

    WoW! I couldn't Imagen it was that Bad....
    So why don't they mention the two screens in the res it there manual?
    I just thought there was the two,, I learned some thing new.
    ( at your expense) I'll have to clean them next service.
    I have only seen packing go bad on damaged rams ie: bent, cracked and very old ones etc... not on a new ram.
    There must be a problem with the smart lock??

    I feel for ya!! what a hasel...:drinkup:
     
  10. Dwan

    Dwan Senior Member
    Messages: 879

    Just went out and checked the fluid in my Boss w/smartlock and it looks like new. 1 year plowing on it.
     
  11. LwnmwrMan22

    LwnmwrMan22 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 27,967

    I'm a little late to this conversation, but I had a new 8.2 V that I bought new in March of last year, got (1) 1" on 1 lot plowed with it, just to see if the thing worked.

    This fall, the second "event" we had (1.25"), the motor fried 2/3's of the way through the route.

    I took it back to the dealer and they changed the entire motor. My cost for a new motor / pump assembly (1710 is the part number, I believe) was $360. Anywhere from that to $510. Look up the part number on the internet next time, you'll find TONS of online dealers, and I'm sure the shipping won't be $200 to get it up there.............. maybe :rolleyes: .

    Anyways, it was a fluid problem, and now the dealer has switched to running Amzoil transmission fluid in them, he was having problems with Boss' oil, or so he tells me anyways.

    I didn't really care, as long as he warranties that plow, he can put whatever he'd like in there for fluid. After all, the Boss fluid didn't last me.
     
  12. Alaska Boss

    Alaska Boss PlowSite.com Addict
    from Alaska
    Messages: 1,951


    Dwan,... well, that's weird,... I bought mine from Truckwell too, they charged me $418, & said that was a "pre-season sale",... was half your bill just for freight to fly them to Juneau?

    The packing was mostly destroyed on just the right side,... & one thing I noticed when taking them apart, was that the big "gland" nut that holds everything together on the right side, was turned out (or loosened) by about ¼" or better as compared to the left side,... now whether this was that way from the beginning, or it gradually backed off on it's own, I don't know... the tech info says that the nut should be tightened to 30 ft/lbs on Smartlock cylinders,... but how does one do that when it's round with only 2 flat spots on opposite sides, & 2¼" in diameter? Build your own giant crowfoot wrench I guess. In any case,... last year when my first pump went out, it had factory Boss fluid in it, one would think that Boss's own fluid would be compatible with their plow parts. If it was the fluid, you'd think everyone would be having this problem, not just me. Also, I would think if the fluid wasn't compatible, then both sides & all the packings would be disintegrating to roughly the same degree. Each Smartlock has 4 actual packings in it, & most of the damage was on the inner-most packing on the right side. so I don't know. Just wish I knew what caused this to start with,... I'm kinda gun-shy now... I don't want to dump $1000 worth of parts into this plow every year, simply because it eats itself.
     
  13. Alaska Boss

    Alaska Boss PlowSite.com Addict
    from Alaska
    Messages: 1,951



    LwnmwrMan22,.. thanks for the reply... wow,.. your parts are even less than half of what we have to pay here !! $360 for a pump AND motor?? If just a pump here goes for $833, & I don't even know what a motor goes for, it would be worth getting that & have it sitting here on the shelf, just so I'm not down for a week or better the next time. I was expecting & hoping to maybe find $100 - $150 less for a pump from some dealer in the lower states, but not $300 - $500 !! When Boss just shipped me a new complete power unit from the factory, I think it cost about $38 to ship it from Michigan to Alaska by UPS. I knew I could find some dealers off the Boss website, but rather than just randomly & blindly searching thru dealers all over the country, I was hoping to get some hard quotes from someone like you, to help steer my search & give me an idea of who's close to the best deal going,.. so thanks again !! :salute:
     
  14. LwnmwrMan22

    LwnmwrMan22 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 27,967

  15. Hammer

    Hammer Junior Member
    Messages: 26

    Working for a Dealer. Give em a call !

    United Truck Body
    218-729-6000
    Ask for Heidi, tell her where your calling from and that Mark sent you to her. If it's a BOSS, she knows it all.