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be honest, how many put salt on concrete sidewalks?

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Ramairfreak98ss, Feb 1, 2010.

  1. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,885

    I mean have you EVER done it?

    Maybe in a jam, one location, all locations, 100% of the time?

    We service neighboring businesses to a bunch that are handled by another "mid" sized company in NJ.. Id never expect anything from a company of this size.

    For the past few weeks, from the Dec 09 storm and forward, i noticed at the store my g/f works at, rock salt all over the cement sidewalks, all of them. I checked another store local, and the same thing.... same company, same company has been doing these for years.

    My g/f is the manager of the store so she asks the guy that brings in the slip to sign... "why are you guys putting salt on the sidewalks, arnt they supposed to put the colored stuff down"? acting as if she doesnt know as much as she does by throwing out "safer than salt" or CMA or calcium chloride etc..

    He tells her, well thats what the boss always has us use ??? whaaaaaaaat?

    Then i have the chance to find out what theyre charging.. .for similar sized properties nearby to our own.. almost 3x as much!

    We have same sized locations for $95-145 for salt/calcium on the sidewalks.

    This place charges $100 for sidewalks, $200 for the lot!

    AND, they rarely ever get there when they should be. Our lots are always salted and plowed before my g/f store is done.

    for THOSE high prices, we'd 100% dedicate one truck per every two locations... thats just a retarted high amount for salting service alone.... even for NJ.

    I've contacted their "district manager" last season, and she said to "forward her a quote"

    I had another company we work with closely, call her as well. She set up a meeting with the company owner, then when he showed up, she wasn't there, she had some emergency to go to some other country for to her family :/ ok, coudlnt have your big office CALL to cancel her appointments for that day? hmmmm

    He tried to get her to forward him a base contract or bidding specs... she said there was none.

    December 17th 2009, 2 days prior to the big 19th storm, the dist. manager notifys the stores that there is finally a contract in place with this other xyb company so the snow should all be handled...

    Apparently there are 25 locations, ALL spread out all over nj.. I "think" this other company might service them all in house, and so theyre driving redicuously far from location to location to get all of them serviced... we would be too.

    There are two groups though closer to each other, several that we pass in our own routes, we could handle 10-15 of these our selves and sub contract out the rest.

    Im just floored with the quality, time schedule of service, using salt on sidewalks, and retarted high prices.

    We could bid 15% less, actually use calcium and CMA product on cement surfaces, service the properties in their 2-4" specification all the time and probably buy an extra truck for each route and pay them off in one season with the amount xyb company must invoice

    There have been several times the company doesnt show up to plow until hours after the snow starts or 6+ inches... on contract they can plow every 1.5+ inches, not 6". Usually the managers have to call to get plowed because there is 4-6" on the parking lot in any snow storm:eek:
  2. Burkartsplow

    Burkartsplow PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,248

    I put salt down. It is there choice. They can get calcium or salt service on their walks. All depends on how much they want to spend.
  3. xtreem3d

    xtreem3d PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,547

    we did in a pinch but they didn't like it !!! a concrete/construction company of all places to come up short....won't let that happen again:
  4. Surf'n'Turf

    Surf'n'Turf Member
    Messages: 34

    i don't know the terms of other competitors contract...poor service is one thing, and applying product x when the specs call for y on a regular basis is deceit, plain and simple. reading some of your posts, it sounds to me like you may be leaving quite a bit of money on the table....wouldn't you rather make more doing less if you could and knew there was a market to support it? sell yourself and company on superior service, performance and trust....not how much you can lower the price by.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
  5. ajslands

    ajslands 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,033

    Did it once for one lot, left over salt from last year and it was wet so it didn't go thru the spreader that easily
  6. cda817

    cda817 Senior Member
    Messages: 284

    Whatever the client specs is what we put down, It doesn't matter to me I charge the same labor rate for anything that will go through the push spreader. If you tell the client you will only put mag. chloride, safer than salt, or some of the other concrete safer products. And your competition is willing to put down salt/sand, bulk, straight sand at a fraction of the cost then it will be hard to compete. I agree with what surfnturf said I won't tell you how to bid jobs everyone's numbers are different, but if you are bidding work and you are 1/3 of the other bids then you are leaving alot on the table. For Example:

    Company XYZ bids $90 to do ABC

    You Bid $30 to do ABC You just left $59.99 on the table to do the same work.

    Ideally you want to be within 1-3% of your competition. Hope this helps.
  7. 1daniel1

    1daniel1 Junior Member
    Messages: 19

    Been putting straight salt down on the same commercial walkways for the past 14 years. I've come to realize in that time that if you evenly disperse the salt and don't overapply in one area too much you will have no problems on properly pourn and cured concrete. Alot of marketing and wordplay (safer than salt, etc.) is used in pushing blended melters. Sodium is still the largest component in most. If you are willing to pay for blends with legitimatly high levels of CMA, the product will be safer, but most commercial properties seem not to be able to come close to being able to afford it from what I've seen.
  8. snowman4

    snowman4 Senior Member
    Messages: 396

    I spreads hundreds of tons of salt every winter on concrete sidewalks. I am only one fo a team of about 100 doing so here! What's the fuss?
  9. PlatinumService

    PlatinumService Senior Member
    Messages: 559

    maybe we have better concrete in canada? lol and its holds up to the salt better i guess i sub for a company and we have about 100 calls to do and its all salt on the walks
  10. toptech72

    toptech72 Member
    from 21078
    Messages: 61

    Been using salt for 20 years with no issues. But we do give our customers a choice. They just always go with salt. Hell the state of Maryland salts the hell out of the concrete roadsufaces we have. The city in live in must use 2 tons of salt to treat the lot at their garage so that they dont have to worry about plowing it. But i cant get them to salt the end of the road i live on when its slick. I love watching the trash man slip and fall trying to get the garbage into the truck.
  11. dchr

    dchr Senior Member
    Messages: 159

    Straight salt all the time-for the past 20+ years. Never had a problem. I really don't understand what the big deal is with putting salt on the concrete walks? It has been discussed endlessly here and still don't understand what everybody is afraid of. Just my 2 cents.
  12. derekbroerse

    derekbroerse 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,377

    Salt unless the contract calls for something different. The city sidewalk plows spread regular salt on the sidewalks too.
  13. procut

    procut Senior Member
    Messages: 902

    Same here.
  14. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985

    I Blacked Out reading another Ramair story.....I need the cliff note version..I think it was something about salt and concrete right...:dizzy:
  15. hydro_37

    hydro_37 PlowSite Veteran
    from iowa
    Messages: 3,790

    That right there is funny sh*t

    salt on concrete has been used for longer then ramair has been plowing........
  16. dlcs

    dlcs 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,142

    I swear he has to be Bobbygedd. :rolleyes:
  17. DSLL

    DSLL Senior Member
    Messages: 136

  18. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,696

    Here ya go buddy ~

  19. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985

    I dont have the Energy Tonite to get into this....I will try to recover and deal with this in the A.M......:laughing::sleeping:
  20. snowman4

    snowman4 Senior Member
    Messages: 396

    I think if you did one of those SEARCH things you would find your question asked many many times with basically the same answer given many many many times. JMO though..........