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Bagging Your Own Salt

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Nickdubya, Jan 2, 2009.

  1. Nickdubya

    Nickdubya Junior Member
    from Chicago
    Messages: 4

    I work for a company that bags fertilizer. We are thinking of bagging salt that we buy in bulk. Does anyone bag their own salt. If so, what should we watch out for as far as quality and moisture? Any help would be great.
  2. deckboys

    deckboys Senior Member
    Messages: 198

    if i'm not mistaken, bulk salt is usually a bigger more coarse, then regular bagged salt..
  3. Runner

    Runner Senior Member
    Messages: 957

    Bulk salt has ALWAYS got plenty of moisture in it. If you are using plastic bags, the stuff will chunk and harden up within a few days. If you are using paper bags, they will never hold up to the environmental conditions.
  4. KissMyWake

    KissMyWake Junior Member
    from indiana
    Messages: 26

    A well sealed plastic bag should be able to keep the salt from hardening. I just opened a couple that had been throw in a corner from last year and they were fine.
  5. Pristine PM ltd

    Pristine PM ltd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,793

    Bulk salt is finer normally... bagged salt is chunkier. Unless Toronto supplies are quite different from Windsor.

    Good luck, It is worth a trial run at least. Why not just use bins?
  6. timmy1

    timmy1 Senior Member
    from RI
    Messages: 470

    5 gal pails or 1 ton bulk bags might work. Again, if it has moisture, it will crust.
  7. Dailylc

    Dailylc Senior Member
    Messages: 226

  8. swtiih

    swtiih PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,179

    I like the 5 gallon buckets. It is easy to get the salt in and out.
    I get buckets for free with the lids through someone who works at a manufacturing plant.
  9. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    umm, i the past this was a good option to save money

    but with the cost of bulk so high... for the few extra bucks, its alot lesswork
  10. fernalddude

    fernalddude PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,105

    This post was a few years ago about our bag line got any questions I'm sure i can get the answer. http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=37039
    Its all about how you control the salt moisture in the salt not the package. Guess first question is what type bagger do you have? How do you stack skids auto or manual? what type feed system and weight system?
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2009
  11. fortydegnorth

    fortydegnorth Senior Member
    Messages: 219

    Why bag it? It doesn't make it spread any easier. Just build a box for the bed and shovel in the bulk. Regardless of bagging it or not if its bulk you will need a vibrator to get it to flow through a tailgate spreader. If you have no way of loading bulk into a truck it makes sense otherwise just dump it in the bed and shovel it into a spreader. I personally think shoveling is easier, no snow covered bags to soak your gloves and no trash to deal with. We have a box made from 2x10 treated wood and we just load the salt in it and shovel it into the tailgate spreader. We can hold a lot of salt in a 7'x3'x20" box. The rest of our route is done by 2 v-boxes.
  12. fernalddude

    fernalddude PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,105

    40 Bagged has its advantages storage for 1. You don't have all the EPA crap to worry about if you are using bulk per the regs you need secondary containment for run off and treatment of surface water to any water way ie. sewer , creek , spillway ect. If your not doing this and just placing it on the ground covering it with a tarp and loading it with a skid or tractor and don't have containment hope EPA never finds out.2 lower water content baged has less water. Ever been out and have a load of wet bulk freze not fun to get out.#3long term storage I have had bagged stuff for years and never a prob with it. Seen guys use con ex boxes only to have it turn into one big rock and have to scrap the whole thing out or try to jack hammer thru it.
    Here is just some of the regs on bulk
    Strategically located salt storage facilities with adequate capacity ensure prompt and reliable delivery of salt for roadway application during periods of high demand created by unpredictable and severe winter weather conditions. Salt storage pile size and location raise environmental concerns, particularly for storm water runoff that may impact ground water and local surface waters. This presentation/paper provides a comprehensive review of structural and non-structural measures for effective management of salt storage piles.

    Structural measures are engineered systems and controls that include fixed and permanent enclosures, impermeable storage pads, waterproof covers, berms or curbing for containment and drainage, discharge systems, etc. Non-structural measures are best management practices or procedural controls for pile construction, pile configuration, pile shaping, pile covering, cover maintenance, housekeeping, salt reclamation, storm water runoff management, etc.

    Salt Storage Pad

    Recommended structural criteria for a salt storage pad should incorporate design, construction, impermeability, site drainage, pad elevation, and slope. Evaluation of a proposed salt storage pad location must include an examination of conditions such as topography, hydrology, and soils to determine potential environmental impact on ground and surface waters.

    Design and construction of an asphalt storage area require an adequate pad sub-grade thickness to ensure pad integrity and stability. The pad base and sub-base must be constructed to achieve the highest durability consistent with asphalt construction techniques. This is achieved using a base and/or sub-base composition having an appropriate mixture of coarse aggregate, fine aggregate, and bitumen. Design and construction of an asphalt storage area also require an adequate surface or wear layer thickness to ensure pad impermeability and proper drainage. The pad surface must be constructed to achieve the lowest permeability consistent with asphalt construction techniques. This is achieved using a wear layer composition having an appropriate mixture of fine aggregate and bitumen.

    The pad elevation should be sufficient so that storm water runoff from the adjacent terrain will not run onto the pad. This is typically accomplished by topographic elevation differences, curbs or berms along the edge of the pad, or drainage ditches around the pad perimeter.

    The salt storage pad should have a minimum slope of 0.5% to allow proper drainage of precipitation. This slope may be from end-to-end of the pad. Or, the slope may be along the longitudinal axis of the pad so as to create a "crown," i.e., sloping away from the centerline in opposite directions. The pad slope must be consistent with site-specific salt storage and handling BMPs.

    Recommended non-structural criteria or BMPs for a salt storage pad should incorporate provisions for capacity, working face, and prevailing wind direction. The structural criteria for the salt storage pad require consideration of these BMPs.

    The storage pad size must be adequate to contain the quantity of salt that will be placed at the site. The pad size must also be sufficient to provide for the maneuvering of trucks, loaders, and other equipment.

    The storage pad should be configured so that the working face of the salt stockpile is downwind of the prevailing wind direction. For example, if the prevailing wind direction is from the northwest, the pad should be configured so that the working face is at the southeast end of the stockpile. In addition, and equally important, the working face must be consistent with the pad slope and prevailing wind direction. For the example just cited, the up-gradient pad end would be to the northwest; the down-gradient end would be to the southeast.

    Thats just some of the stuff that is required by them. If you dont have that stufff with bulk storage hate to be them if they get caught...
  13. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

  14. Superior L & L

    Superior L & L PlowSite Veteran
    from MI
    Messages: 3,035

    ton of salt = $150.00
    pallet of bagged salt 2200# = $185.00 thats a no brainer let someone else bag it.

    Plus even if you have the machine to do it it is going to trash the machine since its so course and will rust everything
  15. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    If they bag fertilizer it would be fine

    $185 skids are getting hard to get so i think it would be viable soon
  16. Superior L & L

    Superior L & L PlowSite Veteran
    from MI
    Messages: 3,035

    after i got done typing i thought about the fert. idea. I wondered how long it would take forsomeone to bring that up. Everyone is smarter than me :)
  17. sherwin

    sherwin Member
    Messages: 46

    Our supplier is a feed coop. They offer it in 100lb. bags that look like grass seed bags too. I think the farmers like it to have around. Most contractors buy the skids or bulk. I agree with superior, we switched to bagged this year in our smaller stuff because for the price it is cheaper in the end than having guys fill rubbermaid containers with bulk. we still us bulk in v-boxes though.
  18. fortydegnorth

    fortydegnorth Senior Member
    Messages: 219

    If you bag bulk salt it will freeze just as easily as non bagged if there is moisture present at the time of bagging it. We rarely get bulk salt delivered that is dry. We have had plenty of bagged salt freeze into solid bricks, at least with bulk we can just crush it up with the skid steer. We do store bulk salt and have followed all the guidlines mentioned earlier. We have a 12" stone base and 10" of asphalt where our bin is. Surrounded by curbing, no storm drains present and the bin is covered. The opening is off slightly but not enough to make me concerned. We only keep 40 tons on hand. If you can bag it and it works for you I say do it. Whatever makes you money and keeps customers happy.
  19. sherwin

    sherwin Member
    Messages: 46

    Yeah the bagged stuff we and everyone else buys is the 50lb. bags. The coop fills their own 100lb. bags with bulk and sell it, though nobody except the farmers buy it because it is too heavy and yes it is wet and will freeze sitting unheated.