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Bad motor?

Discussion in 'Meyer / Diamond Products Discussion' started by Bossman 92, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,770

    So I bought an older 1 ton dump this past spring that came with a meyer e60 set up. We changed all the fluid this afternoon and cleaned the filters, fluid had water in it but the filters were not terrible. Put it all back together and put it through the motions for about 30 seconds. It moves pretty slow up (like the motor is really working) but side to side is fine. Also once we got checking the hot wire comeing off the plow motor was quite hot.

    What do you guys think, new motor?

    Thanks Bossman
     
  2. leolkfrm

    leolkfrm PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,400

    back pressure on the up and down overloading the motor.....valve not opening correctly...rebuild it completely
     
  3. MahonLawnCare

    MahonLawnCare Senior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 851

    take it up to Evans in North Canton. He can look at it for you and tell you what it is. That's where I take my Meyers stuff. He's real good and affordable.
     
  4. jasonv

    jasonv PlowSite.com Addict
    from kannada
    Messages: 1,114

    Was the motor struggling? Or just turning a lot relative to how far it lifted?

    Have you cleaned the screens? A plugged screen = doesn't go anywhere fast.
     
  5. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,770

    Dave's a good guy for sure. I took another Meyer E47 up there last year and he tested and figured the problem while I stood there. Thats where it will end up, just figured if I could save a trip I would. You have a good year?
     
  6. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,770

    Motor seemed to work harder than it should have, and yea already cleaned the screens. If it just raises a little slow I can deal with that but the power wire getting hot, that wont work.
     
  7. jasonv

    jasonv PlowSite.com Addict
    from kannada
    Messages: 1,114

    Look at what I put in bold. I'm trying to get you to clarify WHAT YOU MEAN by that. It may seem perfectly obvious to you, but putting it in that way doesn't help to diagnose the problem.

    Is the motor spinning TOO MUCH for the amount that it lifts by?

    OR

    Is the motor spinning very slowly, like its struggling against a huge load?
     
  8. MahonLawnCare

    MahonLawnCare Senior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 851

    I'm having a good year. Could have been better, the drought killed my mowing for about 2 months but it made me diversify a little bit more which was long overdue. All in all, should beat last year's revenue and I've sold more snow work than ever before. Just picked up our 5th truck yesterday, so I can't complain. How about you guys?
     
  9. MahonLawnCare

    MahonLawnCare Senior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 851

    and it sounds like either a bad motor to me or valve.
     
  10. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,770


    Motor is not spinning too much. It spins slowly on the way up and sounds like it is struggling against a huge load.
     
  11. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,770

    The drought took its toll on the mowing for sure. Sounds like we are in the same boat. We started offering sealcoating services a few years back as something to keep busy in the dead of summer so once the drought hit I switched gears and hit that pretty hard. Already is our best summer ever. Now we just need some snow this winter. Glad to hear you guys are doing well too.
     
  12. jasonv

    jasonv PlowSite.com Addict
    from kannada
    Messages: 1,114

    - If you disconnect the plow from the lift cylinder, does it go up easily?
    - If you disconnect the plow, are you able to LIFT UP on the lift arm? It should be able to lift while creating a vacuum in the cylinder.
    - If it is UP with the plow disconnected and you put it in FLOAT, does the cylinder drop easily when you push down on it? Or is it a struggle with sledge hammers and pry bars?

    If the cylinder itself isn't moving properly, then you are having a problem with the cylinder itself and need to rebuild it. Cylinder, piston, and seal.

    If the cylinder checks out, then you're looking at one of two possible problems;

    1) bad/weak motor. You might be able to take the motor apart and clean it.
    2) up valve not opening fully, could be dirty, faulty, or a weak solenoid. Clean/replace as needed.
    3) other dirt plugging the up circuit. Clean.

    First thing that I would do in this instance, is to SWAP the two large solenoids. That is the easiest and cheapest thing you can test.

    Second thing is to remove the UP valve, inspect, and clean or replace.

    Third thing is to disassemble and clean the motor.

    Forth thing is to disassemble and clean the entire unit -- this should probably be done regardless, if you havent done so already.

    Fifth thing is to replace the motor.
     
  13. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,770



    Well the lift cylinder checks out ok. It lifts easily with the plow off, you are able to lift up on the lift arm while the plow is in float mode, and the plow does not drop easily once in float mode.

    One thing I did notice today while driving across town with the blade on is the plow does drop a little. I had to raise the plow back up 3x over the course of about 20 mins. It doesnt drop clear to the ground, but enough I can tell.

    What do ya think that is? Sorry but I have never run myers before. Thanks for all your help Jason.
     
  14. jasonv

    jasonv PlowSite.com Addict
    from kannada
    Messages: 1,114

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "broken or dirty B valve". However, the problem of the plow drifting down MAY OR MAY NOT be related to the difficulty lifting.

    There are FIVE things on an e60 that can allow a plow to drift down;
    - poor piston seal,
    - leaky cylinder base O-ring,
    - cracked housing,
    - dirty/broken B-valve,
    - dirty/broken A-valve.

    The B-valve is the first control valve on the hydraulic circuid. What the B-valve does, is it selects one of two courses for the fluid from the pump; in the UNENERGIZED state, it directs fluid to the angle cylinders. in the ENERGIZED state, it directs fluid into the lift cylinder.

    The A-valve and the C-valve are both definitely NOT your problem. The C-valve doesn't come into play AT ALL -- it selects between the two angle cylinders. The A-valve, if it was stuck open or partially open, would REDUCE the load on your motor by directing fluid straight back into the reservoir.

    When the motor is operating and the B-valve is energized, fluid flows through the pump, past the pump check valve, past one filter, through the B-valve, and into the base of the lift cylinder.

    If the B-valve is not opening properly, it could be restricting flow, causing a higher load on your pump/motor.

    It remains possible, however, that your motor is dirty/stuck/shot. This problem might not manifest itself operating the angle cylinders since there is virtually no load on those two cylinders.


    It is also possible that either the high pressure filter or the B-valve screen are plugged up, just enough that fluid flows "without load", but it becomes a problem when pushing against a load.

    Here is the service manual for the e60:
    ww2.meyerproducts.com/upload/forms/1-667%20R7.pdf
     
  15. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,770



    Damn man are you a meyer dealer? I really appreciate the time you have taken to walk me through this. I will pull it apart again and clean one more time. If that doesnt fix it she will get a new b valve and we will go from there. I really hope its not a cracked housing since there was water in the fluid when I drained it. Also when I drained the fluid the first time there was quite a bit of chuncks of crap around one of the screens. It actually looked like yellow paint. Not sure what to make of that.

    THanks again
     
  16. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    What condition are the ground connections in? Often poor grounds are the cause of poor motor performance. Check the simple stuff first.
     
  17. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,770

    First thing I checked! It's amazing what poor grounds can do or not do.

    Thanks :waving:
     
  18. jasonv

    jasonv PlowSite.com Addict
    from kannada
    Messages: 1,114

    Not a meyer dealer, just been fighting with a couple of meyer plows for about 20 years.
    I doubt that the housing is cracked. I got a cracked housing once, but that's because somebody backed into it. I listed it only because it is *possible*, not because it is likely. As far as water being in it, every time I've ever taken a meyer pump apart, there's been water and nasty goop in it.

    No problem Thumbs Up
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012