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Any Old School Boys ever see it this BAD BEFORE!

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Snow Picasso, Dec 28, 2006.

  1. Snow Picasso

    Snow Picasso Senior Member
    Messages: 247

    Has anyone ever seen the snowfall totals this low before?:cry: :cry:
  2. spittincobra01

    spittincobra01 Senior Member
    Messages: 193

    the local weather men were talking about this about a week ago. I guess we are between weather patterns and that is what is causing this. One of them is el ninio, the other is something else ninio..lol (don't exactly recall)

    The good news is that the last time this occured was 1955, and here we only had 1.5" by the end of Dec, but in Jan we had 34", Feb 39", and March 41". Lets just hope it happens again just like it did in 55!
  3. Up North

    Up North Senior Member
    Messages: 921

    I live in northern MN and haven't plowed yet this season. Oh well...more time to ice fish.

  4. rembrandt100

    rembrandt100 Member
    Messages: 43

    In Toronto Can. we may get a full 1-2cm next Wednesday. I do not go to work til 5 cm tho. Have not plowed or seen more than 2-6 mins of snow this season. But I seem to remember this same situation last year at this time.
  5. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    In the last 5yrs I averaged 20 plows for the season,right now I'm at 2 so I'm sure it will come.
  6. lawn king

    lawn king PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,070

    Back in 1994 we had 1 event of 3" of slush, the rest of the winter all we had was rain, it was as they say a piss poor snow season. I hope things change here in boston soon, its starting to look like 1994 all over again! :mad:
  7. Mark@NBCTruck

    Mark@NBCTruck Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Don't even have ice to fish on! And diggin the boat back out is just asking for trouble!
  8. Charles

    Charles Moderator Staff Member
    Messages: 244

    No matter what you think is causing it our climate is changing for what seems like the long haul. I was watching the news last night and they were talking about the polar bears very existance being in danger because the polar ice caps are melting so rapidly. This doesn't mean that we won't have extreme cold spells from time to time. Just fewer of them.
    I keep check on weather history and it looks to me like 1950 to 1985 had much colder extremes and much more snow. Then the climate gradually got warmer on average.
    This current warmer extreme is caused mostly by elnino out in the pacific. But on average we will probably continue to see temps rise no matter what is happening out in the pacific
  9. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 7,902

    Global warming, what a crock of sh!t.

    1. The climate was much warmer when the dinosaurs roamed the earth.
    2. We are coming out of an Ice age, so I wonder what is going to happen to the ice.
    3. When mt. st. Helen erupted it spewed more greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere than the whole industrial revolution did.
    That's just from 1 volcano.
    It is called a drought, not global warming. Remember hearing about the Great Dust Bowl?
    I guess it is not even a drought as it has ben raining in the areas that do not have snow.

    Some years it snows in November some not until the end of Dec or the beginning of Jan.
    If we have no snow at the end of January then we'll talk.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2006
  10. Charles

    Charles Moderator Staff Member
    Messages: 244

    I guess grass growing where there use to be snow in Alaska is just those who live there is their imagination?
    I guess the polar ice caps melting at a rapid clip is just scientist imagination?

    Maybe its just the earths cycle relative to the sun. Maybe it is with the help of man. But the earth is showing signs of warming. I know in my area that over all it has warmed. Only take a slight increased in world temps to make a big difference in our weather. Last year this board was complaining about lack of snow too.
  11. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 7,902

    Man has been on this earth a very short time and has kept records for even a shorter period of time.

    Are the glaciers still be covering much of north America?
    So it's been warming up for a long time then?

    When the dinosaurs roamed it was much warmer than it is now then it got much colder and glaciers covered much of North America .. I see a cycle happening.

    Some scientist are just shouting the sky is falling, the sky is falling and jumping on the tree hugger bandwagon.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2006
  12. ThisIsMe

    ThisIsMe Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 745

    I am pretty much the last one to believe anything said on the news these days. I have to agree with others, man has been on this planet for a thimble full of time the planet has been around.

    Most scientists did not even know about polar bears until the 20th century. Now they are making predictions of their existence of an animal that has survived, over 200,000 years of existence, many, many more dramatic climate changes then what man has recorded in the past 100 or so years.

    Heck it is well known and documented that some time before America was discovered that Greenland was actually green and not covered in glacier. How did the polar bears exist then?

    Hate to say it, but news programs will say anything for a dollar. Not to discredit that we may in fact be going through a warming period, but not nearly close enough to jump on the "sky is falling" band wagon.

    There are some well documented research on the effects of man and earth that counteract some of current beliefs. In one well researched theory, it was theorized that the damage that man has done to green house gases could be reversed in three years, if man stopped producing such. That is to say, if man were taking off the planet, mother Earth would cleanse itself in three years of the damage, and believe it or not the oceans would do the most of the cleansing.

    As more research is done the true effects of it will be known. Much in the same way people burning wood instead of oil were scorned for polluting the environment. Only today to learn that it is better then pulling a fossil fuel from the ground to heat. Some of the same principals are carried over into the advantages of bio-diesel.

    end of rant. :)
  13. Charles

    Charles Moderator Staff Member
    Messages: 244

    I agree that is could be just a cycle. One thing that scientist point toward is ice cores showing more greenhouse gases in this era than in the past 100,000 years. They can go back 100,000 years or more using the ice core extraction method. But like you said it could be a Sun cycle etc
  14. ThisIsMe

    ThisIsMe Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 745

    True. The ice studies they are doing is amazing. One thing, you can look at there charts of the earth temperature from the data they have collected and see that during the past 100 years the cycle that we are going through is just a tiny bump compared to what has happened in the past.
  15. Oshkosh

    Oshkosh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,655

    SciScientist say this has nothing to do with Global Warming

    Global warming is an important issue..BUT the scientist say this weather pattern that we are in has NOTHING to do with the long term effects of global warming.The jet stream is just going around us here in the Northeast...In Global warming they are talking a 2 degree rise over hundreds of years not 10 degrees in a month....
    There is evidence that we are in a pattern going back hundreds if not thousands of years.When the scientist take ice plugs from the Arctic there has been cooling and warming cycles longer than man has been on this earth.There is allot that we can do that wont hinder our work or fun....
    The North Pole maybe shrinking but the Arctic has been cooling and growing and has been for many years.Man has been here a very short time in the life of this planet and short term results(10-20years) are just that, a bump on our planets history.
    That being said I am all for better fuel mileage and us getting as far away from fossil fuels as we can...Whether or not we are causing this mess we should all do what we can not to abuse the planet that we live on.
    Soccer Moms driving Hummers to the store just piss me off...Buy them an,Audi, BMW or Mercedes if they want/need to be looked at(Center of attention), but 6mpg that is just stupid.
    That is my .02....
  16. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 7,902

    Indeed, there are natural sources of greenhouse gases. At times during the earth's history, natural emissions of greenhouse gases have been critical factors in major biological calamities on the planet. For instance, during the "Permian extinction" 250 million years ago, volcanic greenhouse gases played a primary role in the catastrophic climate change that caused about 80% of the life on earth to die off. At other times, naturally released greenhouse gases have also played a role.

    Not to say that man is not part of the problem, this time around.

    The Dinosaurs are long gone and the same fate can and probably will happen to man at some point in time also.

    Beginning about 18,000 years ago the Earth started warming up, halting at least temporarily a 100,000-year-long Ice Age, during which the upper latitudes of almost all the continents lay buried under thick sheets of glacial ice.

    The Earth was a much colder and drier place then. Deserts were more extensive, summers were short, and winters brutal. Approximately 1/5 of the forests on the planet were obliterated by the great ice sheets. Over 1/2 of the continent of North America was a desolate wasteland of ice.

    At the peak of glaciation, oceans were 300 feet lower than they are today, allowing animals and men to walk from Siberia to Alaska across the Aleutian Land Bridge, causing changes to the ecosystem of North America. It wasn't until about 15,000 years ago that global warming caused the great glaciers to retreat, allowing establishment of our accustomed environment. Average global temperatures have risen about 5° C since the last Ice Age.

    The Role of the Greenhouse Effect
    From an historical perspective, global warming has saved us, at least temporarily, from an Icehouse Climate, although humans can hardly take the credit.

    Science is clear on what controls cycles of climate change. Global warming (and cooling) cycles are controlled primarily by:

    1) Cyclical variations in the sun's energy output
    2) Eccentricities in Earth's orbit
    3) The influence of plate tectonics on the distribution of continents and oceans
    4) The so-called "greenhouse effect," caused by atmospheric gases such as gaseous water vapor (not droplets), carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxides, which help to trap radiant heat which might otherwise escape into space.
    The "greenhouse effect" actually is a bit player in global climate (although without it's benefits the average temperature of the Earth would be minus 18° C). Human's did not cause the greenhouse effect, but critics maintain human additions to atmospheric greenhouse gases may cause global temperatures to rise too much.

    Generally understood, but rarely publicized is the fact that 95% of the greenhouse effect is due solely to natural water vapor. Of the remaining 5%, only 0.2% to 0.3% of the greenhouse effect (depending on whose numbers you use) is due to emissions of carbon dioxide and other gases from human sources. If we are in fact in a global warming crisis, even the most aggressive and costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would have an undetectable effect on global climate. However, significant efforts to limit the emission of greenhouse gases in the United States are currently underway.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2006
  17. NJ Plowman

    NJ Plowman Senior Member
    Messages: 799

    Snowfall....what's that? :eek:
  18. Charles

    Charles Moderator Staff Member
    Messages: 244

    Here is an article on the subject:

    Meltdown fear as Arctic ice cover falls to record winter low

    David Adam, environment correspondent
    Monday May 15, 2006
    The Guardian

    Record amounts of the Arctic ocean failed to freeze during the recent winter, new figures show, spelling disaster for wildlife and strengthening concerns that the region is locked into a destructive cycle of irreversible climate change.

    Satellite measurements show the area covered by Arctic winter sea ice reached an all-time low in March, down some 300,000 square kilometres on last year -an area bigger than the UK.

    Scientists say the decline highlights an alarming new trend, with recovery of the ice in winter no longer sufficient to compensate for increased melting in the summer. If the cycle continues, the Arctic ocean could lose all of its ice much earlier than expected, possibly by 2030.

    Article continues
    Walt Meier, a researcher at the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado, which collected the figures, said: "It's a pretty stark drop. In the winter the ice tends to be pretty stable, so the last three years, with this steady decline, really stick out."

    Experts are worried because a long-term slow decline of ice around the north pole seems to have sharply accelerated since 2003, raising fears that the region may have passed one of the "tipping points" in global warming. In this scenario, warmer weather melts ice and drives temperatures higher because the dark water beneath absorbs more of the sun's radiation. This could make global warming quickly run out of control.

    Dr Meier said there was "a good chance" the Arctic tipping point has been reached. "People have tried to think of ways we could get back to where we were. We keep going further and further into the hole, and it's getting harder and harder to get out of it."

    The Arctic is rapidly becoming the clearest demonstration of the effects of mankind's impact on the global climate. The temperature is rising twice as fast as the rest of the planet and the region is expected to warm by a further 4C-7C by 2100. The summer and winter ice levels are the lowest since satellite monitoring began in 1979, and almost certainly the lowest since local people began keeping records around 1900. The pace of decline since 2003, if continued, would see the Arctic totally ice-free in summer within 30 years - though few scientists would stake their reputations on a long-term trend drawn from only three years.

    Experts at the US Naval Postgraduate School in California think the situation could be even worse. They are about to publish the results of computer simulations that show the current rate of melting, combined with increased access for warmer Pacific water, could make the summertime Arctic ice-free within a decade. Dr Meier said: "For 800,000 to a million years, at least some of the Arctic has been covered by ice throughout the year. That's an indication that, if we are heading for an ice-free Arctic, it's a really dramatic change and something that is unprecedented almost within the entire record of human species."

    The winter ice has declined all around the region - bad news for polar bears, which spend summer on land before returning to the ice in spring to catch food.
  19. ThisIsMe

    ThisIsMe Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 745

    This is what bothers me and I mean no disrespect.

    Record to what? Compared to what? In the past two years? Decade? 100,000 years? About the only proof that the article demonstrates to support the "record" is a comparison to the previous year. Man the life boats, the flood is coming according to this article.

    Opening statements like this in a news article just, just discredit themselves. Worse yet there is no supporting evidence to support the opening statement throughout the article. Anything for a buck.

    Just news fluff to me sad to say. :)
  20. Up North

    Up North Senior Member
    Messages: 921

    Dang, that's going to one long boring winter!! :dizzy:

    Global warming is a fact. I've looked into it pretty extensively and without a doubt it exists. Yes it's true the world's climate fluctuates, that's a documented fact. But the problem we are encountering is the speed and intensity of the fluctuation. We are seeing things that have never happened before, and like Charles said the polar bear will be extinct in 10 years. They've been having a tough time surviving for the past few years. Polar bears basicly live on the ice cap, and that ice cap is shrinking fast. What used to be a mile or so swim to the ice cap (if they were on land) is now sometimes a 250 mile swim...they don't make it. I went to a program put on by Will Steger a couple months ago and his last trip to Antarctica was a few years ago and the one ice shelf they traversed was 350 miles in length, it's now gone. He showed satelite photos, it is completely gone in just a matter of a few years. We can't reverse global warming but we can slow it considerably, and it doesn't take much to do so. Here's a couple websites that are pretty interesting if you care to check it out, one is Will Stegers site, and another is for Fresh Energy.