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anti corrosion electric gizmo

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by ALEX516, Oct 6, 2004.

  1. ALEX516

    ALEX516 Senior Member
    Messages: 103

    Anyone ever hear of it, some sort of thing you hook to power (12v+) and ground or someting, like a black box with some sort of ionizer or something???
     
  2. catskill

    catskill Junior Member
    Messages: 26

    rust never sleeps

    mercedes benz hs ben running them on there vehicles for a while..so at least they bought into the idea.
     
  3. scholzee

    scholzee Senior Member
    Messages: 242

    If you do some searching on the web they did not work, there are actually some fraud cases and class action law suits going on against them. The only thing that really works on them is the LED light, they have also caused batterys to go dead when things go wrong inside.
     
  4. crashz

    crashz Senior Member
    Messages: 256

    Good info.

    My father has this instlled on his new Cummins 2500. But he was complaining to me that the driveshaft has surface rust on it already (the truck is about 2 months old). I guess that little gizmo is worthless. We'll see.
     
  5. Boast Enterpris

    Boast Enterpris Senior Member
    Messages: 745

    Never herd of that thing. Snoluvr is talking about some liquid that you spray on your equipment, might want to give it a try.
     
  6. crashz

    crashz Senior Member
    Messages: 256

    What it does is meter a small amount of electrical current through the grounded metal on the vehicle. This provides an endless amount of electrons to be used in the oxidation process (when iron corrodes, an electron is stripped from it when combined with oxygen, forming iron oxide = rust). So in theory, the stray electrons from the electrical current will be combined with the offending oxygen molecules, leaving the steel alone.

    But the design is kinda fishy. Because where is all the surplus electrons coming from? The electrical system! So in theory you are sacrificing your battery, alternator and wiring in favor of the body panels. I didn't want to say anything to my father about it, because maybe the design is better than my understanding, however I do know that you cannot just create particles. I hope this unit does not create more problems than its worth. But as my previous post states, I don't think its working anyway.
     
  7. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    I do not know about this gizmo but Cathodic protection is used in all forms of the pipeline industry and also used on navy ships to keep em from rusting. It does work.....does this gizme work? I duno?
     
  8. scholzee

    scholzee Senior Member
    Messages: 242

    ratlover you are right but those ships and pipelines have contact to earth ground, cars have rubber tires and are isoslated.
     
  9. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    Think of it as a big battery(witch is what a pipeline system basicly turns into, a very low voltage battery) you dont really need a earth ground, just a ground. As long as the system is self contained. Basicly you need to make it so what ever you are "protecting" has a very slight negative charge. That way your little electron guys arnt trying to jump ship and when they do that you get corrosion at the point they "jump off". Coating a surface means that there are less places for the guys to jump off, nicks or holes in the coating, so when they do jump off it will be there and corrosion will be acelerated at that point.

    I'm not missing anything now am I? :confused:
     
  10. Boast Enterpris

    Boast Enterpris Senior Member
    Messages: 745

    O kay, guys you are going to think that I am crazy. This sounds stupid I know but it is along the same priciple I think. On our farm, we attach a large link chain (3/4") to the rear axels of our combines, which is long enough to drag about 1 foot on the ground, this prevents a static charge from building up due to all the moving parts, in turn it helps lesson the amount of dust that sticks to the windows of the machine. I am not the only person that does this, most every combine I have ever seen has this chain on it. I don't know if this is the same or not, I think it is doing the exact oppisite of what we want to do in the snow business. Does this make sense to any one?? Don't hammer me to hard on this please!! :waving:
     
  11. scholzee

    scholzee Senior Member
    Messages: 242

    Well static electricity in a car can't go anywhere, when you touch it it goes to you , then ground. That is why people hang those static straps that touch ground so it can disappaite through the strap and not them.
     
  12. crashz

    crashz Senior Member
    Messages: 256

    Boast - you're in the same ball park, just not playing the same game. Static electricity is the build up of excessive electrons, and you are trying to dissipate them with the chain by grounding the rig. To prevent rust, we want a slight static charge or surplus of electrons in the metal body of the truck. In essence this little gizmo is a controlled, slow rate, short circuit through the body of the truck.

    Ratlover - you're right. But usually the pipelines and ships will have a larger block of zinc or aluminum to act as a cathode. The less stable metal will corrode faster by transferring its electrons to the more stable metal (steel) leaving the steel relatively untouched. There is a formula for the size of the blocks needed and their spacing to cover a specific area, but I don't recall it.
     
  13. Bolts Indus.

    Bolts Indus. PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,176

    CRASHZ

    Perhaps the drive shaft is insulated from ground because of grease in the u joints, Just a thought. Don't forget the body is mounted on rubber mounts. I believe the rig only protects the body of the vehicle for this reason. Just a thought.
     
  14. crashz

    crashz Senior Member
    Messages: 256

    Good call Dave. I didn't think about that. That makes a lot of sense because the current would have pass through various rubber bushings such as the body mounts, spring eyes, motor/tranny mounts and such. Like you said, even the grease would insulate it. We'll have to wait and see how it does. :drinkup:
     
  15. scholzee

    scholzee Senior Member
    Messages: 242

    Negative battery cable always goes to engine block whole drivetrain grounded as good as body is.
     
  16. Bolts Indus.

    Bolts Indus. PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,176

    These have been on the market along time and nobody has sued them out of existence yet because they only claim to slow rust down, not eliminate it. And I do believe they do slow it down.
     
  17. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    Magnesium is ussually the sacrificail anode in most pipelines. Although in the olden days there were stories of burrieng cars attached to the pipeline. You right though, you need something more unstable to work. graffite(sp?) is sometimes used depending.....
     
  18. bobingardner

    bobingardner Senior Member
    Messages: 136

    This reminds me of something I bought when I was teenager. It was an atomic ionizer that I attached to the end of the tonearm on my turntable. It was supposed to protect my LPs by "shooting" ions into the grooves of the record thereby dislodging the dust particles that had accumulated there. I used it for a few months before I realized that not only didn't it dislodge the dust, the added weight on the needle caused the records to wear out faster. Also being in immediate vicinity of such a poweful atomic device was a little unnerving.

    It's my understanding that electrons only flow in a closed circuit so I would think that in order for the battery to give up electrons on the negative pole it would have to get an equal number in he positive pole. So my question is how does this circuit get created?
     
  19. scholzee

    scholzee Senior Member
    Messages: 242

    Cathodic protection which is the real name of the technique these profiteers are trying to sell you, has been used with success to protect against corrosion on many structures and systems including sea going ships, buried pipelines, and even reinforced concrete. However, there is an area where the technique has no chance to work ... the protection of cars. Human nature being what it is, many entrepreneurs have tried to use the visible successes of CP to make money by offering car owners devices to achieve such protection. They typically offer these snake oil devices at a price that could be reasonable if it did indeed work. In reality, the gizmos they offer are a lost in the suckers pocket and a gain in the entrepreneur crooks bank account. And watch out, they will disguise the same old gadgets with new patents and glitzy technical names, even throwing in a microprocessor!!
    Why these gadgets do not work?
    One has to understand the principle of CP to understand that the technique works by forcing a protective flow of electrons to the metal that needs protection. For this process to work, you need a complete electrical circuit to bring the electrons back. In the case of an outboard motor on a boat, the sea water completes the circuit. In the case of a bridge, the wet soil completes the circuit.
    But in your car, the only way to complete the circuit on all the metal in your car is to drive into seawater or be buried in soil! There are various products on the market claiming to provide cathodic electrochemical protection to your car, just by injecting electrons into your metal work - but they don't work. Countries like Canada and the U.S.A. have actually got court orders to stop these products from being sold - simply because they don't work. In your car, there are lots of little nooks and crannies where dirt and/or water can collect. The rust happens not where the metal is dry, nor where the metal is wet - but at the interface between the wet and dry metal. So if you screwed a bunch of anodes right on the interface or one or two millimeters thereof, you would protect your car. But you would need thousands of these anodes over your car.
    Modern car manufacturers often do a process called zinc electroplating on the entire chassis of the car. So long as the zinc is complete, the car will not rust. Your best bet is to regularly clean out all the drain holes so that the water can't collect, scrape off any mud that has collected so that metal does not rust away underneath the mud, and remove the leaves and dirt. And of course, once you've washed the car, you should always take it for a drive so that any trapped water can slosh out.
    Additional reference: "Cars and Cathodic Protection: Watch out for fraudulent gadgets!" by Harry Webster, Materials Performance, June 2001, p. 8.
     
  20. c_maint

    c_maint Member
    Messages: 46

    Is this the SNOW PLOW SITE or Mr.Wizard???? Just kidding.
    This is the place to go if you need to know anything!
    Good job guys